Why Embracing Discomfort Is the Key to Growth in the Beauty Industry w/ Donovan Mills

Eric (00: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 Hey Donovan, how's it going?

Donovan (00: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 Good man, how are you?

Eric (00: 00:00:10 03)

00:00:10 Good. So for the listeners, Donovan is also a Southern California salon industry professional. Donovan, you're in you split your time between Wiho, Manhattan Beach, and Santa Barbara, is that right?

Donovan (00: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 Yeah, that's correct.

Eric (00: 00:00:10 17)

00:00:10 Those are three of the most beautiful places in the world.

Donovan (00: 00:00:10 20)

00:00:10 Yeah, I agree. And when I'm in Santa Barbara, I'm like, Am I in California? Like what is going on? I've never been to Europe, but I feel like I'm in Europe, you know? So beautiful up there.

Eric (00: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 It's pretty darn close.

Donovan (00: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Eric (00: 00:00:10 31)

00:00:10 Yeah, certainly the weather is is pretty close. It's one of my favorite places. So I'm in Thousand Oaks. So I've got you beat by about forty five minutes on the way to Santa Barbara.

Donovan (00: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 Really?

Eric (00: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (00: 00:00:10 42)

00:00:10 Okay.

Eric (00: 00:00:10 42)

00:00:10 Yeah, my wife and

00:00:10 I love going up there. But for the listeners, so West Hollywood's right pretty much in the middle of Los Angeles. Manhattan Beach is probably, I don't know, depending on the traffic's probably an hour south. And then Santa Barbara it's probably an hour and a half north of there. So so I I kinda like this footprint that you've got. Why do you do that? Why do you split your time?

Donovan (00: 00:00:10 54)

00:00:10 And as it's down, I was like, okay, we're gonna add more of it there. So I I kinda like this look that they have. Why do you do that? Why do you split

00:00:10 your kind of You know, I try to see a value in untouched areas and those are some untouched areas. you know, first of all I've always been doing hair in Beverly Hills in West Hollywood. That's just kind of been my staple. I had an opportunity

00:00:10 From a girl that I cut her hair, she's a colorist up in Santa Barbara, and she's like, I cannot tell you how many times people have stopped me on the street and asked me who cuts my hair. And so I have clients for you now, basically. And so what I think we should do is we'll st we could just share some clients up in Santa Barbara and see how it goes. I'm up two hours, so you know

00:00:10 They, have to be comfortable with my rate. and I haven't had a blink of an eye. And what's cool about that is I haven't promoted it. I haven't put any Instagram d like anything, like anything social media. And I'm getting girls from the old school organic way.

00:00:10 Seeing somebody walk down the street or seeing somebody walk out of a yoga class, levering their hair, who does your hair, and that's how I built my clientele and I'm fully booked, which is

00:00:10 after

Eric (02: 00:00:10 13)

00:00:10 No

Donovan (02: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 a year, which is pretty awesome, man.

Eric (02: 00:00:10 17)

00:00:10 I wanna talk about this, but I'm gonna quickly introduce you to listeners who don't know you yet. just to just to give some kind of foundation of the conversation. You focus on cuts and extensions you

00:00:10 teach for Hanzo, and it seems like cuts is your jam. You're obviously great at it. You've been doing it for a long time. you just turned 45, I think I saw maybe six months ago or whatever. You turned forty-five. So congratulations.

Donovan (02: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 Yeah, Yeah, April April eighth, man. Thank you.

Eric (02: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 I I got you beat by five years and you know these these are the best

Donovan (02: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Eric (02: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 years, I'm telling you, you know, I just I just love this time of life. so I've also known a lot of hairdressers in the LA area for many, many years and a good number of them who have done great and had good successful careers do this where they've got, you know, bits of clients up north

Donovan (03: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 Okay.

Eric (03: 00:00:10 03)

00:00:10 or maybe bits of clients in the desert and bits of clients down south.

00:00:10 And they're they've been able to make it work and it's one of the reasons I want to talk about this with you today. So okay, so you've

Donovan (03: 00:00:10 13)

00:00:10 It's

Eric (03: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 explained kind of how you got your book filled

Donovan (03: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 But here

Eric (03: 00:00:10 18)

00:00:10 in Santa Barbara. And book filling in Santa Barbara means what? Like how often do you go up there? Like one once a week or or twice a month or?

Donovan (03: 00:00:10 25)

00:00:10 Yeah, so I'm going up there

00:00:10 probably like every five to eight weeks. Yeah. Depending on

Eric (03: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 Okay. Yeah.

Donovan (03: 00:00:10 31)

00:00:10 you know, there's some cir there's some clients out there that this girl's hair just grows I mean, she's, seventy, sixty, seventy years old and her hair just grows so much and so she needs to see me like every

00:00:10 five five weeks is like ideal for her, but to get more consistent like with the clients and kind of booking, I feel like eight weeks is like the sweet spot for everybody. And so yeah, what's cool is that they know that I'm driving out there and they have the respect and they understand that I'm, I'm making a sacrifice to come out there. And so they're like, you

Eric (04: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 yeah.

Donovan (04: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 know what? Like, you know, we'll we're gonna get you when we can get you.

00:00:10 so it's been a quite the journey.

Eric (04: 00:00:10 07)

00:00:10 I love it. And do you stay for just the day? So you d you start early and get home late?

Donovan (04: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 Yep, I leave at five AM and to get up there

Eric (04: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 Ha ha

Donovan (04: 00:00:10 15)

00:00:10 around, eight thirty, have a little breakfast and then I work all day and drive home about like seven PM.

Eric (04: 00:00:10 22)

00:00:10 Me yeah. I mean

00:00:10 that's putting your time in. But I I love it. So you mentioned pricing. I assume you're charging more, right?

Donovan (04: 00:00:10 26)

00:00:10 And pricing. I assume we're trying to buy

00:00:10 Yeah, Not a lot more, but justification for gas,

Eric (04: 00:00:10 35)

00:00:10 Hmm.

00:00:10 Yep. Give give us an idea. You don't have to name a price, but like are you charging twenty percent more?

Donovan (04: 00:00:10 39)

00:00:10 No, I'll tell you.

00:00:10 Yeah, I mean it's fifty dollars more.

00:00:10 Yeah.

Eric (04: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 Okay. Yeah, so I let's throw that out there like twenty, twenty-five percent more, you

00:00:10 know, depending. So that makes sense. And and when you're when you're there, you've got a salon, it's probably the one that your friend, your colors friend

Donovan (04: 00:00:10 52)

00:00:10 and correctly honestly one thing is dependent here.

Eric (04: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 works at, do you like have to pay for the chair for the day? How does that part work?

Donovan (05: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 Yeah,

00:00:10 so I'm paying for the paying for the chair for the day. Yeah. And so

Eric (05: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (05: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 this girl that I met at a salon

00:00:10 That I was that I basically so I was working out a salon up there, it didn't work out. the guy was like, I just want to close the business. And then one of the girls was like, I love your work. I think you would do really good over here. And I didn't even know who she was. She introduced me to the owner, we hit it off. She was like, I'm closing my salon, but I want you to come with me to the new one. and so it's called Leon Salon. and Amanda is the owner and she's just been great. She's just so chill and I show up and she

00:00:10 She

00:00:10 gives me two stations and I, crank out and then I, I head home. And so

Eric (05: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (05: 00:00:10 42)

00:00:10 it's been a it's been a real good gig.

Eric (05: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 I love it. Okay, so what about Manhattan Beach? Similar thing?

Donovan (05: 00:00:10 47)

00:00:10 Yeah, so Manhattan Beach. similar thing, but I don't charge more. and it's because I'm working with my business partner who is the colorist, and so sh she basically was working out there and she was like, I'm gonna be real with you, like everybody up here is basic. You know, nobody's doing the haircuts that you're doing and I need you. And

Eric (06: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 Right.

Donovan (06: 00:00:10 06)

00:00:10 I'm like, Okay. So I met up with the owner and him and I just hit it off immediately. He was like, Welcome in

00:00:10 You pay the day. Prisa was like, I want you to do education once a month, and it it was just it was so much that I was on my schedule. I was like, and sometimes I couldn't even make it. And so I was just like, Can I just do a day rate thing? And then we'll you have someone else come in and do education, you know? Because I was doing education

Eric (06: 00:00:10 28)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

Donovan (06: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 on top of education, and it was just like wasn't as consistent as I wanted it to be. meaning that

00:00:10 I wasn't consistent because I had so much going on, you know what I mean? So I I didn't

Eric (06: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (06: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 wanna like, you know, overdo it. And he was understandable and now he actually got Hanzo in and do some education as well. And so it's all worked out. But yeah, I just pay a day rate there now.

Eric (06: 00:00:10 48)

00:00:10 Very good. Very good. So are was

Donovan (06: 00:00:10 49)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Eric (06: 00:00:10 50)

00:00:10 that the education you were doing with Hanzo?

Donovan (06: 00:00:10 52)

00:00:10 Yeah, yeah.

Eric (06: 00:00:10 54)

00:00:10 Yeah. So it's hard to juggle all the different things, isn't it?

Donovan (06: 00:00:10 58)

00:00:10 Yeah. yeah, it is, man. It really is. I mean today was today has been a little overwhelming, I'm not gonna lie. Like I got here, model was late, I had to do a consultation and then the camera equipment that I was using w wanted me to update and then boom, it just stopped working.

00:00:10 And so I

Eric (07: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 Of course.

Donovan (07: 00:00:10 17)

00:00:10 had to take my camera and move it around every angle.

00:00:10 man, and then to hit this and I was like, my gosh, dude. I was like, I'll buy you lunch at Air One, go have a nice lunch at Air One on me, come back and then we'll do we'll finish the styles in like a timely manner, you know? 'Cause I have

Eric (07: 00:00:10 35)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

Donovan (07: 00:00:10 36)

00:00:10 another meeting at three PM. and then my model comes in at four. yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Eric (07: 00:00:10 40)

00:00:10 Hopefully she's on time. Yeah.

Donovan (07: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 Yeah. And we're doing a big chop for her, so she's better be on time.

00:00:10 But I've got like

Eric (07: 00:00:10 46)

00:00:10 that's awesome.

Donovan (07: 00:00:10 47)

00:00:10 all the kinks we're figured out now and I know all my angles and so I'm hoping that I think we got some good shots. I think we got like the most beautiful angles and she goes, Are you recording it? And I was like, yeah. No, wasn't recording it.

Eric (08: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 No

Donovan (08: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 So pissed. So I'm gonna have to redo it.

Eric (08: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 that's just life, isn't it? And

00:00:10 this is the stuff that you know you're not gonna see on somebody's social page. Like when people are like soaking it all in, like, I love watching this person's page and it's so cool. They're doing all these awesome things, and it it looks so aspirational and like what you want to do and everything, but nobody puts all the shit that goes wrong, right?

Donovan (08: 00:00:10 17)

00:00:10 Yeah. Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah, it's like I almost wanna like put a camera on the back end and

00:00:10 like moving around, you know what I mean? So people can actually see. It's like the behind the scenes, you know, getting that B roll. Getting everything, dude. I mean, yeah, it's a lot of work, man. It is a lot of work, And like me too. Like I've got,

Eric (08: 00:00:10 46)

00:00:10 It's the bloopers.

Donovan (08: 00:00:10 48)

00:00:10 you know, I'm like using microphones and I'm using, camera equipment. And so it's like, dude, and when something doesn't go I mean, dude, an update? And I was in my head, I was like

00:00:10 I have a feeling that something's gonna I felt I maybe I put it out there But one of those things where you're just like, an update, cool, it's gonna work better. Doesn't even work. and it's probably because

Eric (09: 00:00:10 06)

00:00:10 Right. No, dude, it's

Donovan (09: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 of something silly that I could probably just change in one second, but I don't know how to because I haven't looked at it because I haven't had time, you know? So just one of those things, you know. Yeah.

Eric (09: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 my gosh, dude, the updates are the worst. The updates

00:00:10 are the worst. Technology knows when we need to use it the most for the most important thing. And that's when it comes over

Donovan (09: 00:00:10 23)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Eric (09: 00:00:10 24)

00:00:10 the top and goes, boom, update. And this is gonna be the, you know, the MF update that's like the risky one where we're gonna change everything. And then we're we're gonna change the interface so you don't know where the buttons are. Yep.

Donovan (09: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 Yeah. you talking

00:00:10 about iPhones?

00:00:10 Everything, yeah.

Eric (09: 00:00:10 40)

00:00:10 Talking about everything. I mean, iPhones,

00:00:10 yes. IPhones. But I mean just this morning, so when you and I got on this platform that we use here, I know you and Kayla were talking about. It's called Riverside. I mention it now and then to the listeners, but we use this thing called Riverside. It seems to be pretty much the

Donovan (09: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Eric (09: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 best one out there nowadays. in the eight years that we've been doing this podcast, we've used probably

Donovan (09: 00:00:10 59)

00:00:10 The eight years we've been using probably

Eric (10: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 three or four different kind of platforms and Riverside seems to be crushing it. But it's different. So when I logged in this morning, it's like we have a new

Donovan (10: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 three or four different kind of platforms or every size seems to be touching it, but it's different. I'm not going to start we have

Eric (10: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 image or whatever and a whole new layout and stuff. And I'm like, shit. Like hopefully I can even find the studio. It's called a studio when I joined Donovan on here. luckily

Donovan (10: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 And the open act and stuff and I'm like, shit, like hopefully I can even find the studio, it's not studio that I jump on the

Eric (10: 00:00:10 24)

00:00:10 it was it was pretty good, but they love to screw everything up.

Donovan (10: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 Yeah, that's fair. But you know what?

Eric (10: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (10: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 This is one thing I really, really, really, really talk about a lot in my classes is you're never gonna be successful unless you're uncomfortable. In order to get through

Eric (10: 00:00:10 37)

00:00:10 Hundred percent.

Donovan (10: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 those hoops and understand what it takes to get to where you need to be, there's a gotta be a some point in your career that you're gonna be uncomfortable and things aren't gonna work out the way that you want to.

Eric (10: 00:00:10 51)

00:00:10 Yeah. Do you hear the clapping? Yeah, no, that's a big one.

Donovan (10: 00:00:10 52)

00:00:10 You know, and then yeah, yeah, yeah. But also like

00:00:10 yeah, but also, the feeling that you get when you're over that hill, When you're over that hill and

Eric (11: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 that's the the relief.

Donovan (11: 00:00:10 06)

00:00:10 that feeling of aspiration, you know.

00:00:10 the f that feeling of aspiration and then understanding that if I didn't make that step, I wouldn't be here. You know? That's the picture of the Yeah, exactly. And so

Eric (11: 00:00:10 20)

00:00:10 Right. That's the victory. That's the glory. And everybody wants

00:00:10 the glory without the discomfort.

Donovan (11: 00:00:10 28)

00:00:10 Dude, tell me about it. Nobody wants to work I mean, I love everyone, but this new age, dude, these these kids, they don't work. They don't like to work, man. You know? It's it's wild to me.

Eric (11: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 They want their safe spaces. They don't want to be uncomfortable.

00:00:10 And that's just not the way the world works.

Donovan (11: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 No. No.

Eric (11: 00:00:10 46)

00:00:10 so you had a post that I think you were celebrating your forty-fifth birthday and you were expressing gratitude and stuff like that, and you you named a couple things that you kind of attributed to your success in the industry. Do you remember what I'm talking about?

Donovan (11: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 And we may have a couple of things that kind of contributed to the success of the industry.

Eric (12: 00:00:10 06)

00:00:10 You know, it it was it was not anything surprising. It was like the hard work, the discomfort, that this and then that. What let's talk about that. I mean, what are the keys to being successful in this industry?

00:00:10 And talk

Donovan (12: 00:00:10 17)

00:00:10 Well the sinister again.

Eric (12: 00:00:10 18)

00:00:10 to the beauty school students, because we have a lot of beauty school students that have always

Donovan (12: 00:00:10 22)

00:00:10 Yes.

Eric (12: 00:00:10 23)

00:00:10 listened to this show and they're trying to figure it out,

Donovan (12: 00:00:10 25)

00:00:10 And they're trying to

00:00:10 figure it out. Yeah. So y this makes me emotional just, talking about it because I talk about it in all my classes, but I just go straight to it, you know. God has a journey for each and every one of us, more importantly, it's about following his will for your life, putting one foot in front of the other, and you end up exactly where you you're supposed to be.

00:00:10 Don't limit yourself to a demographic. I am from one of the largest meth communities in the nation, a little town called St. Helens, Oregon, maybe 7,000 people. We have a Walmart. Okay? I realized when I was 17 years old, I did not want to be here. I had bigger plans and bigger growth. And I took an opportunity to leave. and ended up working.

00:00:10 so hard to get to where I wanted to be, being uncomfortable, and understanding that my motivation is coming from within, but you have to have that motivation or else you're not gonna get anywhere. you have to understand that you're not that person that's over there.

00:00:10 You're that person that's in the mirror, don't compare yourself to other people. That's one of the worst things right now. that I mean, everybody's doing it, nobody's happy with who they are, right? And I mean, we've got filters on our phones to make ourselves look different so we can feel different. and that's why I love doing hair because,

00:00:10 I can change someone's life with a haircut. I can make them feel and look better just because I know the face shape that they have and I can use or take advantage of

00:00:10 my knowledge of what I have learned, but also making that client feel beautiful by simply just doing a cute little bang or a cute little face frame piece. Right. And so a lot of people ask me, Donovan, like, why are you starting up front first and not in the back? I'm like, well think about it. That's what the client sees first.

00:00:10 You know? And so understanding the value of the client is really, really important.

Donovan (14: 00:00:10 21)

00:00:10 and so the reason is is because nine times out of ten you have a client that comes and sits in your chair. She's she sees your work or she's got recommended to you by somebody and that's why she's in your chair.

00:00:10 She doesn't know you from a hole in ground, And so she may be sweating underneath, right? She may be shaking a little bit. She may not even trust you. She may not even want to be there, right? But for something, something is telling her to be there some reason. Her friends or I mean, may I've had clients that say, God just basically put me in your chair. And I'm so ungrateful for that. But all it takes is to simply just do that cute little bang around the face, right? Do that one face frame piece.

00:00:10 Because if you nail that face frame piece or that bang exactly where she wants it, dude, she is decompressed, she feels better, she's more confident in both you and her because that's what she sees. We are naive human beings. We are very, very, very what's the word I'm looking for? we're very vain, you know? And so a lot of people just stare at themselves in the mirror. You know what I mean? And so.

00:00:10 If you stare at yourself in the mirror and you see that haircut and that f that piece that just falls really, really nice and pretty right where you want it. Dude, where's the wine at? Right? I'm chilling. I'm so happy. Like turn that music up. Let's party. Okay,

Eric (15: 00:00:10 34)

00:00:10 Let's let's party. yeah.

Donovan (15: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 I'm closing my eyes. Do what do what you need to do. I trust you. Right? And that's what

Eric (15: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 Mm. Right.

Donovan (15: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 it takes, you know? And that's how you build that client list and like build those clients that to keep coming back. But really, just don't limit yourself to a demographic and

00:00:10 Have heart, build integrity, don't try to be better than someone else. Be equal to as, as we all are, as we were all created. I think it's important to, you know, to have the passion.

00:00:10 but more importantly, understand, where you're going. When I was in beauty school, I knew that I was gonna be a platform artist. I knew I wanted to become one of the top haircutters in the world. I knew that I was gonna become an educator. I knew all of it. I knew it inside, I spoke it, I it was I told myself every single day, this is what I'm gonna do. And so when I opened up my salon, it was like that moment of like.

00:00:10 I

00:00:10 knew this was gonna happen, I just didn't know when. and it's just that it I think it's important to get inspired by other people. a lot of people don't have the gut to reach out to those people. but a lot of those people that inspire you, it's really simple to just send them a DM and be like, hey man, I love your work, like you inspire me.

Eric (16: 00:00:10 44)

00:00:10 yeah.

Donovan (16: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 You know what I mean? And like people live for that. And if they don't, whatever. You know what I mean? Like then they

Eric (16: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 People live for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't yeah.

Donovan (16: 00:00:10 51)

00:00:10 don't need to be in your life. And I know a lot of people like that, dude. I know a lot of haircutters that are just so into themselves. They don't respond on the DMs. They don't respond on the comments. and it just irks me, man. It just shows me a lack of integrity.

Eric (17: 00:00:10 06)

00:00:10 Yeah, sure. But many do. I mean, yeah, more than you think would do. I I've been, twisting people's arms to reach out

Donovan (17: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 Many do, exactly. Yeah.

Eric (17: 00:00:10 13)

00:00:10 to their hair heroes for twenty five years. And of course it's become a lot easier now.

00:00:10 with Instagram and but if they don't respond on Instagram you really want to reach out to them, email Typically there's an email somewhere. and things like that can change the trajectory of somebody's career. Or when you're at a hair show, walk up to them, introduce yourself. You know, 'cause a lot of people are scared to do that.

Donovan (17: 00:00:10 33)

00:00:10 Yeah. Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. A lot of people are scared to do a lot of things and they don't do it and then it ends up kinda biting in the butt, and like it's like a regret,

Eric (17: 00:00:10 44)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (17: 00:00:10 44)

00:00:10 you know.

Eric (17: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 Goes back to the comfort thing. You know, being comfortable is dangerous. So so go back to, I mean, why did you choose this industry

Donovan (17: 00:00:10 47)

00:00:10 Yeah, exactly. It really is. Yeah.

Eric (17: 00:00:10 54)

00:00:10 in the first place? You're from Oregon, this little town, lots of pitfalls there that you that sounds like you avoided. Why hair?

Donovan (17: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 You know what? I grew up in a salon. My mom's actually a hairstylist. So she's retired now. She's eighty-one years old. she called me one day and I said, Mom, stop working. You know? I'm gonna go ahead and help support you. So I don't think you should retire and so no, I helped my mom, which is a a really cool feeling, but she inspired me, you know.

00:00:10 I was fifteen years old when I did my first haircut.

00:00:10 Dude, I thought I was going to the NBA, you know? Six six foot nine or six foot ten or whatever you wanna call it. I don't know anymore.

Eric (18: 00:00:10 28)

00:00:10 Wait, that's how tall you are?

Donovan (18: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Eric (18: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 my gosh, that's that that is MBA quality height. So you were playing basketball in high school?

Donovan (18: 00:00:10 34)

00:00:10 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I

00:00:10 was playing basketball and I grew up very, very poor. I didn't really have anything growing up. I didn't even really get new school clothes, I was one of those things where, my mom she did an amazing job at raising us. but it was hard for her, and so I was kind of like a

00:00:10 tall

00:00:10 dorky kid. I didn't really have a lot of friends and so there was like a jealousy factor going on. There was a tall rich kid. I was a tall poor kid. the dorky, yearbook photographer, in the band, I mean it

Eric (19: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 What did you play?

Donovan (19: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 it doesn't get worse dude. I was a bare I would play the I played the

Eric (19: 00:00:10 06)

00:00:10 Huh, I don't know. No, I th I think it does get

00:00:10 worse. you could have been five

Donovan (19: 00:00:10 10)

00:00:10 Yeah, I play

Eric (19: 00:00:10 11)

00:00:10 foot two.

Donovan (19: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 I played a baritone.

Eric (19: 00:00:10 13)

00:00:10 Okay, so big instrument and you can handle that. Yeah. Yeah.

Donovan (19: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 Big instrument. Yeah. Yeah. And

00:00:10 so, we had it out for each other. And I grew three inches in one summer. And the coaches were like, dude, you need to play varsity. And I'm like, Well, we can't play varsity till my junior year. They're like, Well, it's freshman year, we'll put you in tryouts, And so

Eric (19: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (19: 00:00:10 31)

00:00:10 I went into the tryouts and I juked this guy and he pushed me midair.

00:00:10 I landed on both my kneecaps and both my patellas raised four inches on each side and I crawled off the basketball court. Yeah, and so that was it for me. No more basketball for this guy.

Eric (19: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 No.

Donovan (19: 00:00:10 46)

00:00:10 Yeah, you know, and so I always Yeah,

Eric (19: 00:00:10 47)

00:00:10 I got chills.

Donovan (19: 00:00:10 49)

00:00:10 I always start my classes as that this is you know, that's not what God had planned for me, and then I was a carpenter and then I went into the restaurant industry, I worked on a cruise ship, and always cut a

Eric (19: 00:00:10 59)

00:00:10 Wow. As a what? What'd

00:00:10 you do on a cruise ship?

Donovan (20: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 man, I was a server.

00:00:10 Yeah, in the Hawaiian Islands.

Eric (20: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 Wow.

Donovan (20: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 Yeah. I didn't fit. My sh I my I couldn't even fit in my shower. I was like, you know on a bunk bed it was good it was aggressive. But

Eric (20: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 I was gonna say physically you couldn't fit. The boats aren't that big.

Donovan (20: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 but that's the thing, that's where I built my work ethic because I didn't I was working six to twelve hours a day, seven days a week, you know.

00:00:10 and then I really understood that, you know, this hard work thing is I can do that. I like this actually, like cool. I'm not I don't have time to spend my money. I'm just gonna work, right? And then I said I built on cruise ships and most people like easy for days on that I just looked at too well on a

Eric (20: 00:00:10 33)

00:00:10 And what's funny, and I want to say something quick about that. I've known some people who've worked on cruise ships, and most people are like, my God, it must have been amazing, or you know, like on your days off. And I'm like, I I don't think anybody's ever had a day off that I've spoken to on a cruise ship. I

Donovan (20: 00:00:10 49)

00:00:10 as something who fits on your start is trying to ship the actual salon. This is 20 ship.

Eric (20: 00:00:10 49)

00:00:10 somebody who's been at Salon Republic for many years started as a hairdresser on a cruise ship and then started managing the salon. This is seven days a week in the salon on a cruise ship. But

Donovan (20: 00:00:10 58)

00:00:10 But

Eric (20: 00:00:10 59)

00:00:10 One of the things that I find that happens when you work seven days a week in a in an environment like that, that's kind of self-contained, is that you find fun and joy in the working, you know, in in whatever way that might be. Did you find yourself being like that? Whether it's like you find your little community of coworkers

00:00:10 and you all kind of have fun together, like as you're working. Yeah.

Donovan (21: 00:00:10 21)

00:00:10 yeah, man, I loved it. I loved it.

00:00:10 I, not only did I like, find this new place of, you know, hard work, but also like keeping myself busy, by simply just like drawing something, or going to hang out with the crew, And like we had like little crew areas and stuff that we would kick it and sometimes

00:00:10 you would get off the cruise ship and you'd have a couple hours to go kind of play around and but you'd have to go right back to work, There was no like full days off. I got one full day off because they were gonna promote me to manager. and they're like, we're gonna give you a full day off. And so I went surfing, which was aggressive. I I I

Eric (21: 00:00:10 55)

00:00:10 Cross it.

Donovan (21: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 first and last time I ever surfed, I was literally on the

Eric (21: 00:00:10 58)

00:00:10 No.

Donovan (21: 00:00:10 59)

00:00:10 in the North Shore. So I don't know if you know the North Shore, right? It's like

Eric (22: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 No. I know I

00:00:10 am a surfer. I went surfing this morning, first thing.

Donovan (22: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 Okay, dude, so I

00:00:10 went I went s we were we went to pipeline. And it and it was it was I'm

Eric (22: 00:00:10 09)

00:00:10 No you didn't. Come on. This is a joke.

Donovan (22: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 I'm telling you, I'm dead serious. local

Eric (22: 00:00:10 19)

00:00:10 Yeah. I I know yep.

Donovan (22: 00:00:10 22)

00:00:10 local newspaper, and what he does is he basically helps underprivileged children or people that are, handicapped surf.

00:00:10 and so that was the only basically he was like, I only have time for this. It's perfect day for you to learn. and so he gives me like this giant board, dude. The board was so big. I mean it was so big. I was like, dude, this thing is so huge. I'm like carrying this thing around. So he teaches us on the beach, the whole thing. We all go out and paddle. I'm the only one that doesn't know how to surf. These other guys are experienced, so they're stoked, dude. And I'm like, my gosh, dude. I'm going out there. So I get out there.

00:00:10 And it's

00:00:10 Beautiful. I mean it was like it wasn't aggressive, it was really soft, and then four it was four foot, is what he said. It was four foot swells, so really small. And I know pipeline can get really aggressive and crazy. So we get out there and I go to start paddling and I'm like, okay, I got this. And I get up on my board and I look down, dude, and the reef is like two feet underneath me. And I'm like, nope, not doing it. And I just paddle back in.

Eric (23: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 Right it's right there.

Donovan (23: 00:00:10 22)

00:00:10 And he goes, What happened, man? You had it. And I go, bro, the reef was two feet underneath me. I'm six foot nine. If I put my leg off of it, I'm done. He goes, That's probably a good idea. And I'm like, you're over here on the on the I could hear him from the from the shore. And he's like, dude, dude, get it, get it, get it. And I was like, you're over here encouraging me, bro. I could have like ended my life. So that was the first and last time I ever surfed. And then we went skydiving

00:00:10 over YLA Canyon, which was really cool.

Eric (23: 00:00:10 48)

00:00:10 For the I'm sure most of the listeners know pipeline to some degree, but it's the most dangerous surf spot in the world. More guys have died there than anywhere else. And that reef that you looked at is legendary worldwide for being s dangerous.

Donovan (23: 00:00:10 52)

00:00:10 There's sort of there and anywhere else. And that way you look at his potentially very well for big thing.

Eric (24: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 So is it

Donovan (24: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 It was aggressive. And so I'm

00:00:10 we so there's a place called the Boneyard, which is even more aggressive, which was right to the left of pipeline. and there's reefs sticking out of the water. Like it was crazy. So I'm nobody

Eric (24: 00:00:10 15)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (24: 00:00:10 18)

00:00:10 but like when I tell people pipeline like whatever, dude, I'm like, I'm dead serious, dude. Like I and I realize, this this reef is two feet underneath me. I'm not gonna I'm not doing this.

Eric (24: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 the margin of error is very small So I mean

Donovan (24: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Eric (24: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 I think you can be proud of yourself for paddling out there. I've never paddled out there and I've been

00:00:10 a surfer for 30 years.

Donovan (24: 00:00:10 37)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Eric (24: 00:00:10 37)

00:00:10 so there you go. Good on you.

Donovan (24: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 But it was really

00:00:10 it was really mellow, it wasn't aggressive, so like I didn't know anything

Eric (24: 00:00:10 42)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (24: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 from the difference b except the reef was like right there and I like, This is crazy. You

00:00:10 guys are crazy. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Eric (24: 00:00:10 47)

00:00:10 Ignorance is bliss sometimes. Yeah.

00:00:10 All right. so this working on a cruise ship definitely shaped your work ethic, right? And so you you did all these things, restaurant

Donovan (24: 00:00:10 55)

00:00:10 Definitely.

Eric (24: 00:00:10 58)

00:00:10 business, you were a carpenter. So at what point were you like,

Donovan (25: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 What time?

Eric (25: 00:00:10 03)

00:00:10 I'm gonna try, I'm gonna maybe go back to hair? Was it like go back to hair, or was it I've always loved hair and I'm gonna just focus on it?

Donovan (25: 00:00:10 13)

00:00:10 Yeah, so yeah, exactly. Like, so I've always loved hair, and always kind of just did hair for fun. Did I really know what I was doing? I mean, no, like nobody taught me anything, like it was just like winging it, but people liked it, right? and then I was just doing my buddy's hair, and he was just like, dude, why don't you do this for a living? Like, you're so good at this, you know? And I actually inspired him to go to beauty school.

00:00:10 And so he goes, We're going to beauty school. I enroll us to go to beauty school tomorrow.

00:00:10 Yeah. And so I ended up going to a Tony and Guy.

00:00:10 Yeah, in Orange County. And I graduated

Eric (25: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 Okay. Yeah.

Donovan (25: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 as an alumni. I was the top percent of my class. You know, I was like top top three percent and it really comes down to is because I wanted it, you're not gonna get anything without hard work. I would take advanced classes on the weekends while everybody else was going out and partying,

Eric (25: 00:00:10 59)

00:00:10 There we go.

Donovan (26: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 And so I was so motivated because I found a passion that

00:00:10 it just did something to me that nothing else did. And I'm so grateful for it and now I can say that, I'm a hair marine.

Eric (26: 00:00:10 10)

00:00:10 Yeah, I love it. You've been in the trenches.

Donovan (26: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 Yeah. man, yeah, definitely.

Eric (26: 00:00:10 15)

00:00:10 So given that you kind of knew what you were doing before you went to school, was was there kind of a conflict between the way you liked to cut versus what Tony and Guy

00:00:10 was teaching you?

Donovan (26: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 no, because I was an open book, man. the difference between me and someone else is I'll know an answer, but I'll ask another person to get a different one. what I mean? Because everybody has a different value on life and outlook. And so why don't

Eric (26: 00:00:10 40)

00:00:10 Yeah, perspective.

Donovan (26: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 why not get a different perspective from somebody else's vision or eyes, you know?

Eric (26: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (26: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 will say though, when I went into the blow dry class,

00:00:10 I took the blow dryer and I did one and he goes, you don't need to be here. And everybody's like, What?

Eric (26: 00:00:10 51)

00:00:10 Mm.

Donovan (26: 00:00:10 52)

00:00:10 And I'm like, are you yeah, he's like, dude, you already figured it out. I'm like, okay. He's

Eric (26: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 Ha ha.

Donovan (26: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 like, go to lunch, dude. I'm like, all right. But it was

Eric (27: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (27: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 just one of those things that I I it was just a natural I I naturally had it, And I think it's

Eric (27: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 Mm. I love it. I love it.

Donovan (27: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 important that if something makes you feel

00:00:10 Happy inside, then you need to follow that happiness because you know, that's not just a fluke. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Eric (27: 00:00:10 17)

00:00:10 Absolutely. I mean, especially if that can earn you a living.

00:00:10 I think where a lot of people get frustrated is they hear somebody say, Do what you love,

Donovan (27: 00:00:10 24)

00:00:10 Yeah, question is here.

Eric (27: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 and maybe what you love is fishing

Donovan (27: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 Yes.

Eric (27: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 or you w you know, doing some other kind of more hobby oriented thing that doesn't make any money, and then they're like, How come I can't make money doing this? And then they get frustrated because they have to get a job somewhere. If you can actually

00:00:10 make money doing what you love, that's the key to life. But I don't think it happens very often.

Donovan (27: 00:00:10 48)

00:00:10 No. And you know what? I don't know how many people even are still doing hair that I went to beauty school with.

Eric (27: 00:00:10 54)

00:00:10 Yeah. Yeah.

Donovan (27: 00:00:10 55)

00:00:10 Like, there's a lot of people that are doing hair and and don't love it. And they're just doing it because it's good money. Or they think it's good money or that's just kind of what they do,

00:00:10 Or they lose that happiness and so that's when one thing is with me is like once I feel comfortable in something, I'm like what else can I do to make me feel uncomfortable?

Eric (28: 00:00:10 17)

00:00:10 so

00:00:10 being comfortable with being uncomfortable, that's one thing. But when you realize that being uncomfortable is the place to be, that's it.

Donovan (28: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 That's it. That's it.

Eric (28: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 the listeners who have been with me for the eight years, you will remember me saying I last time I probably said this was six years ago, but I've known a very successful business person who's well known who once told me, he said, if you imagine an envelope

00:00:10 this analogy is a little weird, but this is what he said. And it and so it it resonates to me, hopefully it resonates to others. He said if you imagine an envelope and most people are kind of tucked inside the

00:00:10 envelope, all warm and cozy, he said, you wanna be operating on the outside of the envelope. You wanna be teetering on the edge of the envelope, because that's when the good stuff happens.

Donovan (29: 00:00:10 07)

00:00:10 Yeah,

00:00:10 exactly. And so my newest greatest thing recently is extensions. And so I just took a extension class on how to do I already I've I've been doing tapes for years, but sew-ins.

00:00:10 Wefs, K tips, you know invisible wefs, and so have been certified to I think is one of the best extension companies in the world called Extensionology. and it was talk about being inspired, man. Wow. This girl hasn't taught classes for anybody in fifteen years. She remembered me when I was an assistant at

00:00:10 Ramirez Tran. And she was like, I haven't taught anybody. then I went in to do it and she goes, This is your first time doing this? And I'm like, Yeah, she goes, This is the best I've ever seen. And I'm

Eric (29: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 my god.

Donovan (29: 00:00:10 58)

00:00:10 like, I'm like, whatever. She goes, I'm dead serious. I'm like, no way. Cause I'm over here thinking, I need to do better. I need to do better. I c I know I can do this better. And she was like, I'm I'm blown away how good you did. So,

Eric (30: 00:00:10 11)

00:00:10 It's awesome.

Donovan (30: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 I knew it was coming from her heart. I knew it wasn't just to like s to make me happy. You know what I mean? just one of those things where I'm like, I think I could do better than I did, you know? And I'm

Eric (30: 00:00:10 19)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Donovan (30: 00:00:10 20)

00:00:10 gonna. You know, and so that's been my new thing is I'm gonna try to start doing more extensions and

Eric (30: 00:00:10 25)

00:00:10 Love it.

Donovan (30: 00:00:10 25)

00:00:10 just all hair, everything hair. My whole life is hair.

00:00:10 Everything

Eric (30: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 Yeah, that's fantastic.

00:00:10 So one of the things I like to ask the guests is what they're seeing behind the chair these days, like client behavior,

00:00:10 clients changing anything, coming in more, coming in less, being flaky,

Donovan (30: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 Yeah, so I'm grateful that my clients are pretty consistent and communicative, which is really important to me. that's one thing I really try to strive in my classes is overcommunication is so important. I mean to a point maybe you become annoying. But you gotta be on that same page with that client, Because if that client's a Karen.

00:00:10 And she knows more about her hair than you do. You've got problems, And so if you make that you make Karen unhappy, that's game over, Or she's gonna try to find

Eric (31: 00:00:10 06)

00:00:10 Yeah. Karen 'cause Karen likes to be unhappy.

Donovan (31: 00:00:10 09)

00:00:10 she likes to be unhappy. She goes in her little house in her little bathroom and picks her hair apart until she can find something wrong. Right? And so, like

Eric (31: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 Right. Right.

Donovan (31: 00:00:10 15)

00:00:10 understanding that, over communication is important. And so I really try to stay on top of it with my clients. But flakiness is here and there, I will say like

00:00:10 Usually somebody that books online, it can be a hit or miss.

00:00:10 Like someone that books like, through my Instagram or, somebody that's recommended to me or, you know, a referral, they're it's usually pretty good. consistency is obviously, important.

00:00:10 The difference between my haircuts and someone else's haircuts and not saying that mine are like whatever. Anyway, my I don't see my clients for like six months at a time, I'll see a client and then I won't see them for six months. And so hoping that that comp that client becomes a walking billboard and goes and pushes that pushes out that, you know, that word that they love their hair.

Eric (31: 00:00:10 55)

00:00:10 Yeah. That's a good way to see it. And and and so to that

00:00:10 point, are most of your new clients coming from referrals or are they coming through your

Donovan (32: 00:00:10 03)

00:00:10 And most of the classes are

Eric (32: 00:00:10 07)

00:00:10 social or walking in the door?

Donovan (32: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 Dude, I ha I mean, it's

00:00:10 all of it. I saw we don't take walk ins here. we it's just all private books. I had a client that came in the other day and I go, How'd you find me? And she goes, Chat GPT? And I'm like, What are talking about? She goes, I put in exactly what I wanted and it sent me straight to your Instagram.

00:00:10 And I loved

Eric (32: 00:00:10 26)

00:00:10 No

Donovan (32: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 your I loved your work and so I booked you.

Eric (32: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 Come

00:00:10 on. Okay, hold on a minute. We gotta unpack that for a second. So, do you did you ask what she said?

Donovan (32: 00:00:10 37)

00:00:10 I should have but I did not. I no, I actually did and she goes I just put in everything that I wanted with a haircut and a dry haircut and I have fine hair and the area and it put your Instagram on the Chat GPT page.

Eric (32: 00:00:10 48)

00:00:10 Okay, so if I go to gram, your gram and I know that it says dry haircuts. Okay, so this is one of the things I love about what you've done with your gram, is right at the top, you say Donovan Mills, you have a little divider line there, and then you say West Hollywood dry haircuts. And I continue to say every single week for eight years, guys.

00:00:10 Too many of you have a profile on your Instagram that

00:00:10 has no indication of where you are. I mean, you could be in in Sao Paulo, Brazil for what anybody knows. You have to put where you are. And so Donovan's got right at the top, West Hollywood dry haircuts, and then down below his picture, he says Manhattan Beach, Santa Barbara.

00:00:10 And and then dry haircuts again. So if that new client said dry haircuts, then

00:00:10 Chat GPT when they were scraping the internet, they found dry haircuts twice on Donovan's IG. And that's why it sent his his contact to her. Do you is that how you think it happened?

Donovan (33: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 Yeah, I think that's how it happened. I also feel like, I've been doing a lot of like ads and stuff and doing the demographic specifics in West Hollywood and

Eric (34: 00:00:10 07)

00:00:10 Okay.

Donovan (34: 00:00:10 07)

00:00:10 you know, in like

00:00:10 dry haircuts, and so

Eric (34: 00:00:10 09)

00:00:10 Okay, so ads on what Google?

Donovan (34: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 Instagram. Yeah.

Eric (34: 00:00:10 13)

00:00:10 Okay, all right,

00:00:10 there you go. So the ads basically proliferated your content to probably make it easier for chat to find.

Donovan (34: 00:00:10 21)

00:00:10 Yep. Yeah, and then that goes

Eric (34: 00:00:10 22)

00:00:10 How about that?

Donovan (34: 00:00:10 23)

00:00:10 then that goes to Facebook. Facebook goes to the

Eric (34: 00:00:10 24)

00:00:10 Yep. Facebook and Instagram. Yeah, linked.

Donovan (34: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 L. Yeah.

Eric (34: 00:00:10 28)

00:00:10 All right. Fantastic.

00:00:10 Do you have any hair horror stories?

Donovan (34: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 No, I mean I

00:00:10 basically I stopped doing extensions because of a client, I raised her prices to like fifteen hundred dollars for a haircut.

Eric (34: 00:00:10 37)

00:00:10 Why? Because she she

00:00:10 did a a chargeback or something?

Donovan (34: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 No. I just didn't want to do her hair anymore.

Eric (34: 00:00:10 44)

00:00:10 you stopped doing a client because of her behavior?

Donovan (34: 00:00:10 48)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Eric (34: 00:00:10 48)

00:00:10 What what'd she do?

Donovan (34: 00:00:10 49)

00:00:10 She's just a typical Karen, one of those sweet as it all can be, but

00:00:10 Yeah, dude, it was just imp

Eric (34: 00:00:10 53)

00:00:10 Impossible to please.

Donovan (34: 00:00:10 54)

00:00:10 impossible to please and but then just a lot. A lot, dude. I mean, dude, I w I I

Eric (34: 00:00:10 58)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

Donovan (35: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 ended up going to her house one time she's in her bathroom. By the way, she lives in like a crazy estate and we're in her bathroom and she's sitting down and she literally has can, a whip it can, know, whippets.

Eric (35: 00:00:10 15)

00:00:10 Yeah. Wait. And

Donovan (35: 00:00:10 15)

00:00:10 Like

Eric (35: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 I and maybe I don't know. What what is a whip it? I think I know what it is, but I'm not sure.

Donovan (35: 00:00:10 19)

00:00:10 A whip it is like

00:00:10 the the nitrous.

Eric (35: 00:00:10 22)

00:00:10 to okay. So like a helium voice?

Donovan (35: 00:00:10 21)

00:00:10 And she's like half half a nitrous. She's like, I hope you don't mind And I was like, What, dude? Yeah, dude, I mean whi a whip

00:00:10 it is like a like a nitrous. It's like like a a head head change. It's like a little canister that people like

Eric (35: 00:00:10 37)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 okay, God.

Donovan (35: 00:00:10 40)

00:00:10 Yeah, that was crazy. I was like, this might

Eric (35: 00:00:10 42)

00:00:10 That's it.

Donovan (35: 00:00:10 42)

00:00:10 be the last time here.

Eric (35: 00:00:10 47)

00:00:10 Got it. So she was on cloud nine when you were there. Yeah.

Donovan (35: 00:00:10 50)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah. But I mean I not not anything like crazy like that I can think about that that really stands out, Yeah.

Eric (35: 00:00:10 58)

00:00:10 Okay. All right.

00:00:10 that's pretty good. Any last words for the community?

Donovan (36: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 I really, really, really, really want everybody to understand how important you are. believe in yourself, follow that will that God has for you. Don't ever give up. And if someone doesn't have the decency to reach back out to you that inspires you, then they're not meant to be.

00:00:10 please, if you ever have any questions, reach out to me on my IG. I will not leave you on red. I get hundreds of DMs and I answer them all personally. I'll never be too cool or too big to not respond. but believe in yourself. Really, really, really, really, really important to me. and step outside of the box,

00:00:10 Think

00:00:10 and do things that you normally wouldn't do. It's just gonna make you

Eric (36: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 Shake it up a little.

Donovan (36: 00:00:10 39)

00:00:10 it's gonna make you more successful, but also be uncomfortable. 'Cause you're never gonna be successful if you're not. You know, it it just won't

Eric (36: 00:00:10 47)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (36: 00:00:10 48)

00:00:10 happen.

Eric (36: 00:00:10 48)

00:00:10 Yeah, it's riskier to stay in the box than it is to get out of the box. Most people are like

Donovan (36: 00:00:10 51)

00:00:10 Yeah. Yeah.

Eric (36: 00:00:10 53)

00:00:10 st too scary outside the box. Risky.

Donovan (36: 00:00:10 55)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Eric (36: 00:00:10 55)

00:00:10 Something bad might happen. Hmm. the bad things happen when you stay in the box.

Donovan (36: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah, but that's the thing, I mean if you look at all these billionaires and all these, you know, big big time people, they're successful because they took risks and they failed. And they're

Eric (37: 00:00:10 09)

00:00:10 They're still taking risks.

Donovan (37: 00:00:10 10)

00:00:10 still taking risks, right? Still and they and you know, some people like that get really g get off on that, right? That's what they do, like they want to keep those risks and continue, but yeah, man,

00:00:10 I think it's important to have people that also believe in you as well. I mean I wouldn't be doing hair if it wasn't because of my buddy that told me I think I should be doing hair. You know? Because he saw su

Eric (37: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 Yeah, right. Amazing. Isn't isn't that interesting?

Donovan (37: 00:00:10 34)

00:00:10 he saw something in me that I didn't see in myself. And it just put it just but it put that spark, You don't need

Eric (37: 00:00:10 39)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Donovan (37: 00:00:10 39)

00:00:10 a hundred thousand followers on Instagram.

00:00:10 You need those one or two people that are gonna lift you up and bring you out. Move you forward, put you in an uncomfortable position. Right.

Eric (37: 00:00:10 48)

00:00:10 Absolutely.

00:00:10 Yep. Wise words, Donovan. This was awesome. Thank you so much. I enjoyed it tremendously.

Donovan (37: 00:00:10 54)

00:00:10 Yeah, man.

00:00:10 Absolutely Absolutely, me too. And thank you for taking the time and and also thank you for the consistency in reaching out to me over and over and over again.

Eric (38: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 yes. Hmm.

Donovan (38: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 you know, Squeaky Will gets the grease.

Eric (38: 00:00:10 07)

00:00:10 There you go. There you go. All right. Lots of lessons in

Donovan (38: 00:00:10 09)

00:00:10 Yeah. All right.

Eric (38: 00:00:10 10)

00:00:10 this one.

00:00:10 Listeners, I hope you like this one.

Donovan (38: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 Yeah. Thank you guys. I appreciate you. God bless.