How a Successful Indie Stylist Does It w/ Holly Clifford

The Hair Game (00: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 Hey Holly, how are you? I'm doing fantastic. It is great to see you on here. So everybody, I know Holly from Salon Republique Murrieta and I've wanted to get Holly on here for a while and I'm super excited to get you on

Holly Clifford (00: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 Good, how are you?

The Hair Game (00: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 You're a Murrieta, California hairdresser and studio owner who focuses on blonding and

00:00:10 You're a Masters of Bolleage, top 50 and awarded best hairstylist in the Inland Empire eight years in a row, which is the thing that I love the most because it's, know, art industry, your business as a beauty professional is local.

00:00:10 It's local. So I always kind of wonder, and we interview plenty of people who get, you know, national, international awards, but I wonder if that has as much value as being awarded best hairstylist in your neighborhood, basically in your region, eight years in a row. And I would guess probably not.

Holly Clifford (00: 00:00:10 40)

00:00:10 Great.

00:00:10 All right.

00:00:10 out. me, it's the most important award because it is voted by my clients who appreciate and love me. And so it means the most to me. I do have a huge range of clients because of these low maintenance hair colors. They're coming in maybe twice a year.

00:00:10 So I have a lot of clients and fortunately they all get excited when it's voting time. They're like, the time is the time every year they look forward to it. And so do I. So I love being named in the magazine. It's really special, especially because it comes from the clients.

The Hair Game (01: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 Yeah, and that's super cute that they are looking forward to it and then they like you so much that they, they wanna spend the two minutes or five minutes to go on there and vote. ⁓ So there's a couple things that I wanna, I'm not done with this local award thing. I wanna get into the whole lived in color thing you just mentioned, but I first wanna talk about the local award thing. How many clients do you get? How many new clients do you get?

Holly Clifford (01: 00:00:10 46)

00:00:10 in

The Hair Game (01: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 from this mention in the local publication.

Holly Clifford (02: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 That's a great question. I do get a few. I wouldn't say I get a ton from that. Most of my clients are referral based and then Instagram. And then I do get some from that percentage wise. If I had to guess and give a number, I would say 10 to 15 % are from that notoriety. But I do think that on Instagram, cause I advertise it and I showcase it. I think that's what draws people on my Instagram to trust me.

The Hair Game (02: 00:00:10 18)

00:00:10 Okay, pretty good.

Holly Clifford (02: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 that my clients have voted for me for this. So I feel like it works in multi facets.

The Hair Game (02: 00:00:10 32)

00:00:10 There you go. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. There's social proof by being able to say, I'm the best hairstylist in the Inland Empire according to the votes. That means a lot of people like me. And if you're a hairdresser, it's good for a lot of people to like you because that means that you're probably pretty good. So you put that on your gram and your Instagram account is a good Instagram account. You are active on it. It's one of the reasons I wanted to interview you is

Holly Clifford (02: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 Thanks.

The Hair Game (03: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 You're not Insta-famous, okay? You don't have a bunch of brands ⁓ clamoring over paying you a lot of money to put names on your Instagram account. You are like vast majority of hairdressers in the industry and you're doing it very successfully. And this is really what matters most. And I think a lot of the audience, while it's entertaining for them to hear…

Holly Clifford (03: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 No.

00:00:10 Thank

00:00:10 Right.

The Hair Game (03: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 you know, an Insta-famous person or an influencer or somebody with a million followers and stuff. I know that a lot of our listeners are like, okay, you know, you can't ask her how it is for her to get new clients because it's totally different than how I get new clients because I'm behind the chair all day and I'm doing my thing and I need to run my business effectively. So that's one of the reasons I want to talk to you because

Holly Clifford (03: 00:00:10 52)

00:00:10 No,

The Hair Game (03: 00:00:10 54)

00:00:10 ⁓ You are very successful at doing what you do in the studio. And so I wanted to talk to you about a lot of things, about the ways that you do it. So with Instagram, you don't need a big account, right? What do you find is important

Holly Clifford (03: 00:00:10 55)

00:00:10 no, you don't.

The Hair Game (04: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 about a quote unquote normal Instagram account that is gonna drive your business, which is what you care about most?

Holly Clifford (04: 00:00:10 21)

00:00:10 Absolutely. So I post content of work that I do that I want to draw more in. So it's the balayage and the blonding. And I do some brunettes. I don't do perms. I don't do men's cuts. I don't do redheads. I don't do vivids. So I just post what I want to attract. And then I do still use some key hashtags and now they're calling it keywords. So I put that in my caption, not in the comment section, but in the caption. Apparently there's something with the algorithm that it likes it that way.

00:00:10 So one of big things that I've always done throughout my Instagram career in the Instagram world for the last seven years ⁓ has been the hashtag local the city. So I say hashtag Murrieta hairstylist. And even my neighboring city Temecula is right next door. So I say hashtag Temecula hairstylist, hashtag Temecula blondes, hashtag Temecula balayage, same with Murrieta. And I feel like people are still using hashtags to search for people. So that's really effective for me.

The Hair Game (05: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 Yes, it's very good for that. You have an inland empire in your profile. It's very, very important. Hairdressers, know, beauty professionals, estheticians, massage there, whoever. If you're a personal service provider who relies on a geographically local kind of marketing.

00:00:10 lens and strategy. You have to put where you do your services. I've been saying this almost on every episode now and it's probably the listeners are like, my God, here it goes again. But the reason I'm saying it again is because, know, eight years into doing this podcast, that was like news eight years ago that you needed to be geographically specific, right? Valencia, California, Hackensack, New Jersey, Dallas, Texas.

Holly Clifford (05: 00:00:10 44)

00:00:10 Right.

00:00:10 I'm

00:00:10 Right.

The Hair Game (06: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 You know, put where you are so that somebody, as soon as they visit your page, and this goes for obviously your website, whatever, they know where you are. Because they may like you, but you know, if you're maybe more than an hour away, or if you're three states away, unlikely that they're gonna book with you. That is the reality of situation. So it's very important, and I still see so many beauty professionals who don't wanna put where they work, which doesn't make any sense to me.

Holly Clifford (06: 00:00:10 18)

00:00:10 Right.

00:00:10 Right.

00:00:10 Right, it's a little interesting. I do also with the tags whenever I'm posting something, whether it's a real or a post or carousel, I'll do the location nearby. So I'll say the city in Murrieta location, city Murrieta or a Starbucks that's really busy. We have one that happens to be a training headquarters just down the street. So I had the Starbucks. I start I tag things that are close nearby to grab more attention from different areas,

The Hair Game (06: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 It is interesting.

00:00:10 So I'm coming off of the Vegaro event that was last weekend for the listeners. That would be like early October, mid-October. They invited me up there. I did a panel and I put some fancy ⁓ hairdressers that…

00:00:10 that I know well up there on the panel and we talked about marketing and we talked about a lot of very specific things. Some of them may be a little bit sophisticated, a little deeper diving on like Facebook ads and SEO on Google and things like this. And then I opened up the questioning to the audience and the questions were like, what's meta?

Holly Clifford (07: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 Okay.

The Hair Game (07: 00:00:10 53)

00:00:10 and what social media should I be on? And

Holly Clifford (07: 00:00:10 59)

00:00:10 In.

The Hair Game (07: 00:00:10 59)

00:00:10 what other things? Like, what kind of ⁓ captions should I write? Every question was so basic. There were probably 50 people in the audience, which is great because I can walk around, I can ask questions, it's more intimate. And then the panelists are able to respond and it's like you get a real great exchange of information.

00:00:10 the questions were so basic that I realized that I don't know if we can talk about the basics enough. know, I sometimes think as somebody who does this every week, I sometimes think to myself, I'm repeating myself if I talk about the basics. And so I try to get a little granular with things and then…

Holly Clifford (08: 00:00:10 32)

00:00:10 Right.

00:00:10 Thank you.

The Hair Game (08: 00:00:10 46)

00:00:10 When I talk to the bread and butter hairdressers who are trying to fill their books out there, trying to fill their chairs because they have gaps or whatever, they're like so basic with the questions. so I have to be better with talking about the basics. And that's one of the reasons why I'm asking you about these things, because they're so important. Some people think like Instagram, nobody's there anymore.

Holly Clifford (09: 00:00:10 11)

00:00:10 They really are.

The Hair Game (09: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 And of course, it's diminished a little bit in activity, but it's still one of the big drivers. The biggest driver though digitally is what? That's a question for you. What's the biggest driver digitally?

Holly Clifford (09: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 Ooh, that's a good question. So I hear I don't do it. I am just doing Instagram, but I hear TikTok might be the biggest driver. Is that right? So Google Ads. Yes, I have heard of that. just Google. OK. OK.

The Hair Game (09: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 Well, the biggest driver is Google. Yes, yes. Well, not necessarily even ads, just a presence on Google. So what

00:00:10 do you, do you have a presence on Google? So they call it Google, Google My Business or something like that. They it Google Business. They change it every now and, but a listing.

Holly Clifford (09: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 Interesting. Well, apparently

00:00:10 that's, apparently that's something I need to do. But fortunately for me with what I'm doing, it's been working and I consistently still get new clients reaching out weekly. So I'm in a good place, thank God. ⁓ But I haven't had to use that yet, but why not? I think that's smart.

The Hair Game (10: 00:00:10 10)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 So there,

00:00:10 well, I mean, what you're doing is enough, right? ⁓ But I'm curious if I type in, so what is technically the name of your business?

Holly Clifford (10: 00:00:10 19)

00:00:10 Yeah. ⁓

00:00:10 Holly does great hair. And I have been told, yeah, I have been told clients have found me on Google and I don't know how, but I'm like, okay, great. And it pops up award-winning stylist.

The Hair Game (10: 00:00:10 28)

00:00:10 Okay, so you have it as Holly does great here, okay?

00:00:10 All right.

00:00:10 There

00:00:10 you go. So you've done something right with Google.

Holly Clifford (10: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 But I didn't put

00:00:10 it out there, so thanks to whoever did.

The Hair Game (10: 00:00:10 46)

00:00:10 That's

00:00:10 interesting. Maybe Google has just mined the internet. Okay, so hold on a minute. I'm looking.

00:00:10 Okay, so listeners, Holly does not have a Google Business account.

00:00:10 and we're gonna set one up for her. Well, we're gonna go in the direction of setting one up,

00:00:10 Okay, so Marissa, VP of marketing is here And so we're gonna do it right here on the air. Okay, Marissa, what do we do? Google.com? Yeah, Google my business. Googlemybusiness.com? ⁓ Just type in Google my business.

00:00:10 And then you have to get listed on Google right there. Right here. It says Google business profile. Get listed on Google. OK. OK. And then you click. says stand out on Google with a free business profile. Then you click start now. It's free, everybody. It's free. It's free. Free ninety nine. So we're going to put Holly's name right here. Business name. OK. Holly, what do you want your business name to be? Holly does great here.

Holly Clifford (11: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 Yes, please.

The Hair Game (11: 00:00:10 58)

00:00:10 Okay, she says yes please. Holly does great hair.

00:00:10 Okay. Now wait a second. We're not gonna be able to do this for her, right? Cause she needs to like have a password and stuff. She's gonna have to, she's gonna email. Yeah, and it has to be connected to her Gmail account. Right. So. Right, okay. But you would click on continue. Continue, and then it'll walk her down the path of creating her profile.

00:00:10 So just make sure you fill it out completely. Make sure you add images of the services you're trying to attract more of and make sure that you're labeling the images ⁓ with client terms of those services. Balayage, blonding, all those things. And then all of a sudden you become massively more searchable. Yes, this will help with local SEO. Okay. Thank you very much VP of Marketing.

Holly Clifford (12: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 Okay.

00:00:10 Love it. Thank you.

The Hair Game (12: 00:00:10 52)

00:00:10 All right. There we go. That's how you do it, everybody. So the secret there was you just type in Google my business. ⁓ Also, let's see. You could also type in business dot Google dot com. So that's how you do it. OK, Holly, that's your homework. And listeners, for those of you who don't have a Google business account that is free, that helps people find you, that is your homework to do.

Holly Clifford (12: 00:00:10 53)

00:00:10 Bye.

The Hair Game (13: 00:00:10 22)

00:00:10 Okay. These are the basics that I was talking about. All right. So I'm fascinated because I want to know if you set one up, Holly, I want to know if you start seeing more clients, you know, in a month or two months or whatever. I don't even know. I don't even know. Of course. I don't even know if you have time for more clients because I know you're pretty. Yeah. I know you're pretty well booked out, but.

Holly Clifford (13: 00:00:10 31)

00:00:10 .

00:00:10 I hope so. I would say so because it's more advertising, right?

00:00:10 during the holiday season.

The Hair Game (13: 00:00:10 52)

00:00:10 Isn't that interesting? mean, even if you're booked out, you still want new clients, right? Because then it just kind of justifies ⁓ potentially a price increase depending on various factors in your business. But if you lose a couple more people or whatever, then you can fill up those spots on your books. So are you excited about that?

Holly Clifford (13: 00:00:10 58)

00:00:10 Yes.

00:00:10 Bye.

00:00:10 Thank

00:00:10 I'm super excited. New clients are always a good thing. I've always accepted new clients. But my clients, like you said, I am pre booked up, but I do have availability. They were smart and they started pre booking their holiday till the end of the year appointments in July. They they do not want to miss. So they've learned over the years.

The Hair Game (14: 00:00:10 32)

00:00:10 my God, that's amazing. Wow. So are you pretty much,

00:00:10 it's now mid-October, are you booked up pretty much from the holiday?

Holly Clifford (14: 00:00:10 40)

00:00:10 Yeah,

00:00:10 no, I have. I do have openings, but the tried and true, the ones who had not missed. And again, I have a lot of clients who come in very rarely twice a year. So they're like, I want my hair perfect for those holidays. So I have I have openings. I'm not fully booked. So I don't want to be that style. like, I'm just fully booked and I can't know. I can take on more. I have room for more. And I look forward to more, honestly, because it is more opportunities.

The Hair Game (14: 00:00:10 54)

00:00:10 I love it.

00:00:10 Awesome.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, I love it. Okay, so you talked about ⁓ the types of services that you're doing these days with the twice a year type of cadence. Would you consider it lived in color that you're doing?

Holly Clifford (15: 00:00:10 18)

00:00:10 Yes.

00:00:10 Low maintenance and CS sort of lived in. don't do when I hear lived in a lot of times I hear root shadow and I actually don't root shadow a lot of my clients. They like to be bright and I really am strategic with the way I place the highlights or the balayage so that it grows out softly, not relying on that root shadow for insurance blend. So it does grow out beautifully and I will say I have clients that come in every three months or my highlights who come in every two months, but I do have the occasional.

00:00:10 I see your girls and I'm happy to see them when they come back, but it's always a good transformation. Yeah.

The Hair Game (15: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 I love it.

00:00:10 tell us what actually, before I ask that question, I do wanna back up and get a little bit of your history. So can you tell us where you're from and why you became a hairstylist in the first place?

Holly Clifford (16: 00:00:10 10)

00:00:10 So I am from the empire. And it became a hairstyle because I was the kid getting kitchen haircuts by my stepmom with no hair education. We were a family of six. We didn't have much money. So you just got mom's kitchen scissors and I had baby bangs up to here. So after a few times, I just realized if I trim my own bangs, she won't do them and botch them.

00:00:10 And then, you know, it just became a little bit of a trickle. And then my sisters were like, okay, let me, will you do my hair? And it was probably the start of it, but I didn't know at the time that I would be doing hair. It wasn't something that I pursued when I started going after my associate's degree. I was actually going for psychology. I wanted to be a therapist for children. And ⁓ my hairstylist was the one who said, you know, you love hair so much. Why don't you do hair for a living?

00:00:10 And I kind of feel like the two intertwine between being a therapist and a hairstylist, you kind of do both. So I do think I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be. And I've also always been a artist. Like I was always creative, took art classes all throughout school and in college. So it's always been my passion. Fortunately for me, my community college that I was just going for my associate's degree had a cosmetology program. So I switched over to that and I took that.

00:00:10 And so that was at Riverside Community College, RCC.

The Hair Game (17: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 Wow.

00:00:10 And that's probably one of the most affordable ways to get a license, right?

Holly Clifford (17: 00:00:10 36)

00:00:10 Yes,

00:00:10 I was really happy with it. Yeah.

The Hair Game (17: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 Very good.

00:00:10 And you graduated, you took the test, you passed, and then what'd you do?

Holly Clifford (17: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 first try pass, was nerve wracking. I don't think I slept a night before. So I got my license in 2006. So you know how things were around that time. It was a little sketchy. People were not paying for services, the housing market crash, the economy crash. It was really difficult. So fortunately from

The Hair Game (18: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 Especially

00:00:10 in your neck of the woods, right? mean, Inland Empire was, I think it was ground zero for the mortgage ⁓ fraud that took place.

Holly Clifford (18: 00:00:10 07)

00:00:10 Take time.

00:00:10 Yeah, it was terrible. So people are losing their homes. The balloon, I believe it was called the balloon rate were inflated and people just couldn't afford it. So of course, you know, you're out of a home, you're definitely not getting your hair done. So there was a lot of deals being done. You were giving out free haircuts. You were standing on the like a sign spinner trying to get advertisement for business because we didn't have Instagram. You couldn't do it from the comfort of your suite or your salon or your home. You had to go out there and hand out your business card.

00:00:10 which I don't even carry business cards anymore because of the technology that we have today. But it was definitely difficult. ⁓ I waitressed for a long time just to get by because waitressing paid my bills versus doing hair. So a lot of at-home hair. And then once I started going into a salon, I started at a chop shop. And it was great because I felt at ease. They gave us education and there wasn't as much pressure to do perfect work.

00:00:10 because these people were coming in for $10 haircuts. And you're like, that's great. No stress off my back. So that's kind of where I started. And then I became honestly very education focused and obsessed. And that's one of the things that my clients love. They see the value in my work because of how much I continue to invest in my education. And I just keep growing and leveling up. When I first started doing hair, I did lot of, I did dabble in Vivids. In fact, one of my oldest posts, which you can scroll down,

00:00:10 is famous on Pinterest and it's a vivid blue black. I don't do vivids anymore. But ⁓ yeah, so I did everything I could. I did everything. Yeah, I did do. I did more things. did men's cuts back then. I could do them blindfolded now. I've done things, but as I grew in my career now, I'm almost 20 years in. I focus on my niche. And I would say I focused on my niche relatively in the last

The Hair Game (19: 00:00:10 49)

00:00:10 Huh. OK.

00:00:10 Pinterest famous, I love that.

Holly Clifford (20: 00:00:10 13)

00:00:10 Mm, eight years. I've really hunkered down. Yeah.

The Hair Game (20: 00:00:10 18)

00:00:10 hunkered down and focused on blonding, how valuable, blonding and balayage, and how valuable to get all those reps, I mean, you call it a chop shop, and

Holly Clifford (20: 00:00:10 21)

00:00:10 Launding in Ballyosh.

The Hair Game (20: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 There's a lot of hairdressers who have worked at the chop shops of the world because they get a lot of reps. It's gotta be good practice in certain ways. And then of course, you move on and you move up and you start focusing, you see what you like, and then you can go to different types of salons to get different types of experiences. So where did you go from the chop shop?

Holly Clifford (20: 00:00:10 52)

00:00:10 All right.

00:00:10 I went to a small salon. ⁓ It no longer exists, but I went to a small salon and ⁓ it was good. I was taking things and I was learning from coworkers and I was nervous. And that's, think, what pushed me to start taking classes. And something that I'd like to share with other hairstylists is if you're just starting off or if you're in a tight budget. I was going to salon-centric for those three classes. I would not let my budget limit my ability.

00:00:10 And now you can get free education online. You can take it when you have time. So there's so much opportunity for growth, but I would say it was all self-pushed. I did most of it myself. I did have one wonderful salon owner who actually paid for me. ⁓ Gosh, I think it was nine years ago to go to Bollyage classes when I worked in San Diego and her name is Adrienne. She owns the lab salon and she's fantastic. And she actually used to teach for Tony and Guy. So she was literally like a

00:00:10 Mentor, she's somebody who I wanted to emulate. She's very educated and successful salon owner and sweet woman. Yeah.

The Hair Game (22: 00:00:10 03)

00:00:10 I love that.

00:00:10 education, experience, repetition with hands and hair. And it sounds like, let's see, 2006. And then you moved to Solana Republic in 2019?

Holly Clifford (22: 00:00:10 20)

00:00:10 Wait,

00:00:10 I'm 2022. Because November's our three-year anniversary. And you got me down for another three years.

The Hair Game (22: 00:00:10 24)

00:00:10 2022, that's right, course. That's right, and that's when we opened that.

00:00:10 There you go, amazing. ⁓ And so why did you move to the studio?

Holly Clifford (22: 00:00:10 40)

00:00:10 So I was at a competitor walking distance from here and you guys had. Yeah.

The Hair Game (22: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 Okay. Got it. So you were independent before that. So then let's move back

00:00:10 before that. So why did you go to your own? Why did you get your own studio in the first place?

Holly Clifford (22: 00:00:10 50)

00:00:10 Independent.

00:00:10 Okay, so COVID was what forced me into the salon suite world. Basically the salon that I was at the time wasn't sure if they were gonna be able to keep their doors open. And understandably, we just all had to do what we had to do. And I was just panicked and I knew I had a full-time clientele business. And so when those doors were reopened, I wanted to make sure I had somewhere I could take my clients. And so I signed up

00:00:10 competitor. Yeah. Sign up

00:00:10 for a suite somewhere else to get my foot in the door before Salon Republic existed in our area. We didn't have the option of Salon Republic. Hence why, you know, you guys were my first choice. But I went in there and it was culture shock. I went to the only studio available. There were no windows and I was used to being around a salon of 20 to 25 stylists. That was a major shift and I had a lot of

The Hair Game (23: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 Thank you.

Holly Clifford (23: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 worries about that, how is it going to be for me and my clients. It actually kind of bonded us even more. And we could talk about things and I'm a non-judgmental person, whatever you want to say, you can vent, let it out. And so I think having the privacy of a suite was really perfect, especially during pandemic time. And then I moved to a different room where I got a window, but the window was about this big, like a cruise ship little sinkhole.

The Hair Game (24: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 Little tiny, so like

00:00:10 two feet by two feet, she's motioning. Yeah.

Holly Clifford (24: 00:00:10 17)

00:00:10 is so small. Yeah,

00:00:10 so it was a really small window. And it was just a peephole of a view, but it was an upgrade. And I felt good about that at the time. ⁓ But yeah, so that I was like, okay, sweet life it is I don't want to go work for somebody else in a salon now that I've been successful on my own. Although I do like working around other individuals. ⁓ I knew that this is for my path. This is I'm going to be independent and I'm going to be on my own running a salon whether you know

00:00:10 whether it's just me, myself in the suite or me and other stylists. about 2022, you guys had DMed me and funny story, I thought it was spam. So I don't think I responded right away. Then the girls that were in my suite at the other business started talking about Salon Republic coming around. I'm like, hold on, let me look. I think I got a message from them.

The Hair Game (24: 00:00:10 48)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 What?

Holly Clifford (25: 00:00:10 11)

00:00:10 And I looked and I looked into it and I actually walked through the Escondido location. I said, ⁓ sign me up, I'm in. So it has been really nice. ⁓ The way, if I can describe it and compare the two, when I talk to other hairstylists, I tell them, you know, we have the luxuries here. You have the wash and fold towels for you. You have the front desk manager to greet your clients and take them to your studio. You have an in-house beauty supply store and it's always clean. There's always somebody cleaning.

00:00:10 the way I describe it is I compare it to a Lamborghini to a Honda Civic. A Honda Civic is gonna get you the mall, but a Lamborghini has the heated seats, it drives itself maybe, so it's a little fancier. And of course it's gonna cost a little bit more, but there are luxuries to that. So I do feel that I can confidently say being in Salon Republic versus the competitor, I can actually charge more because my clients all walked in and were wowed. So I really see the value in that.

The Hair Game (26: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 Awesome.

Holly Clifford (26: 00:00:10 06)

00:00:10 And I have a window suite. is the large wall windows that everybody loves. I have a great view of where squirrels and bunnies are running around. So it's really peaceful. It's my home. It's my home away from home. I love it.

The Hair Game (26: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 I love it.

00:00:10 That's amazing. And so in the background, I see that you adorned your wall with it looks like those kind of wood slats. I love those things. I actually did that on my, my bedroom wall. And so did you have, do you really, did you do that yourself or did you have somebody else do that for you? Your hubby did it. Amazing. Wow. He's good at it.

Holly Clifford (26: 00:00:10 31)

00:00:10 Yes.

00:00:10 I have it in my gym at home. Yeah.

00:00:10 My husband, my handyman husband. Yeah, yeah. So I'm the artist.

00:00:10 So I tell him where to put things and then he just gets them done. Yeah. He's got a contractor's license too, so that helps, but he's very handy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

The Hair Game (26: 00:00:10 51)

00:00:10 Wow, lucky you. That helps. Yeah, that's great. That's awesome. I love it. Okay.

00:00:10 Well, I love that story. Thank you for sharing that. What are you seeing behind the chair these days? Any changes? You know, we're in, let's say the end of 2025. We're now like four years out of COVID. There's been kind of inflation a couple of years ago. It's somewhat moderated, but you know, the…

00:00:10 Some people are saying that the economy is struggling and, but we still have like four and a half percent unemployment, which is pretty darn good. So, you know, I'm not really sure how you define struggling ⁓ economy, ⁓ all of the indicators look, look pretty decent. I know some people are struggling. know the entertainment industry is struggling. You know, since the, we had the, ⁓ the strikes, the, the, writers and the actors strike about a year ago or so. And I know that

Holly Clifford (27: 00:00:10 31)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Alright.

00:00:10 All right.

The Hair Game (27: 00:00:10 51)

00:00:10 Production is largely moved to other places where it's less expensive. You're a Murrieta, so maybe you're a little protected from that. What do you see in Behind the Chair?

Holly Clifford (28: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 We really haven't seen a huge shift, to be totally honest. And I know it's case by case. ⁓ Fortunately, I feel like my clients are pretty consistent. ⁓ I don't see them, but I hear from other stylists that clients are spacing out their appointments more. ⁓ I have my people that do, and then I have my people that are every four weeks or every eight weeks on the dot.

00:00:10 I think it really is just relative on who you speak to. Fortunately, I will say it feels like I hate to boast, but fortunately, I'm not really in that situation with clients where finances are becoming so tight that they're not able to come in. Thankfully, they are still coming in. Girls are still getting their extensions, ⁓ which is a luxury service. So I haven't really seen ⁓ the negative side effects. And I do think I have a theory.

00:00:10 I think part of that has to do with social media. ⁓ We're taking more photos of ourselves nowadays on vacations or whatever we're doing. So we always want to look good for the camera and our photos or whatever tagged photos we're in. So I feel like ever since COVID, people just don't miss their appointments. They want that self care. They want to look fresh. They want to feel their best.

The Hair Game (29: 00:00:10 10)

00:00:10 Yeah, I love it. Well, that's fantastic. You know, even if let's I'm trying to think of the, the listeners are, are hearing our conversation, you know, there's going to be some who are thinking, well, mine are spacing out their clients. My clients are spacing out their appointments and da da da da. And this is kind of where I go back to that Google business account. Make sure you've got it. Make sure that you're uploading photos to it. Make sure that you are as findable.

00:00:10 or searchable as possible out there on the worldwide interweb to make sure that ⁓ you have the maximum inflow of clients as possible as you try to fill any spaces in your books.

00:00:10 Okay, you're doing a great job, obviously. You've been doing a great job for years. I've been watching you, we've known each other, and ⁓ I wanted you to come on here and talk about it. ⁓ I wanna talk about some of the details of how you manage your business. Do you use a booking app? ⁓ Okay, which one? You use Square, okay.

Holly Clifford (29: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 Okay. Yes. Are you square? Are you square?

00:00:10 I

00:00:10 was using it since 2020 and it had worked well for me. I do get buy on the free version. So it's not, you know, pricey and it works for me. Yeah.

The Hair Game (30: 00:00:10 25)

00:00:10 Right, yeah. Yeah,

00:00:10 great. And all the functions work. Have you used any other booking app? Is there any Intel that you got? Are you just happy with Square?

Holly Clifford (30: 00:00:10 39)

00:00:10 I have listened, I believe you did an episode on different kinds and I've heard it throughout the industry. ⁓ Jogaro is definitely a top contender and I've seen them at different beauty premiere shows, things like that. ⁓ They're definitely up there. There's different features that they offer ⁓ that are definitely enticing. But if you're a regular hairstylist like myself, I'm still going through.

00:00:10 costs of business and when go down my monthly breakdown, I have to pay for this bill. have to pay for this bill. If it's one that I can get rid of, I get rid of it. So yeah.

The Hair Game (31: 00:00:10 13)

00:00:10 Yeah, yeah, managing

00:00:10 your books. So let's talk about that for a second. How do you manage your books? Do you actually have like a QuickBooks account and you have it on there or do you use a spreadsheet? How do you do it?

Holly Clifford (31: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 You know what,

00:00:10 I use this spreadsheet. I'm a little bit of an OCD perfectionist type A. So I have everything every day filled out. ⁓ Cash that I receive, Zelle, whatever I receive, it's everything's accounted for. And then every time that I spend money, I also write it down. And I have it already preset in categories for how the taxes are done. So there's product one time use category. I have that. That's such as like your hair foils that you throw away.

00:00:10 And then there's tools is another category. So I already have it separated. My, ⁓ my accountant loves me, ⁓ cause I make it pretty easy. Very much, but I don't want to, I'm like, here, just make sure, make sure I've got it right. ⁓ but I do see the appeal of QuickBooks. I absolutely do. And I'm not opposed to using that. In fact, I was talking to someone about that the other day, ⁓ about switching it up. So I don't have to, but again, it.

The Hair Game (32: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 Wow. You're an accountant's dream. You're basically doing your own taxes.

00:00:10 Yeah.

Holly Clifford (32: 00:00:10 23)

00:00:10 It costs a service fee and I have to find the value in that for it to be worth it.

The Hair Game (32: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 Yeah, I

00:00:10 believe it's about $75 a month. I mean, that's, you know, what is that? $825 a year. It's not nothing. I mean, I pay it, you know, for just, I got a bookkeeper who does like our family finances, you know, and he keeps it on QuickBooks. And, you know, this helps my wife and I, you know, manage ourselves, of course. And we got little kids and like, God knows, like all the expenses with the little kids and everything.

Holly Clifford (32: 00:00:10 36)

00:00:10 Yeah, it's a chunk.

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah.

The Hair Game (32: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 Um,

00:00:10 but every month that I see the 75 bucks, I hate the, I hate paying $75. All I think is $800 a year, you know, to pay for this thing just seems ridiculous. But I decided to do it because it's how I can, I can keep an eye on it. And it's important to keep an eye on it, but you doing it by hand. I mean, if it works, you don't mind it. mean, that's pretty great.

Holly Clifford (33: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 I yous!

00:00:10 Yup. Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 account did offer to because she's a CPA. So she had offered to also monitor my bank account track it all and do it for me. But again, that's a monthly fee and hers was higher than $75 understandably she's worth it. But if I'm managing on my own, if it's one less expense that I can have come out, then absolutely. You know, I'd rather save that money for something else.

The Hair Game (33: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 There's a certain something else.

00:00:10 Yeah. Like pumpkin lattes.

Holly Clifford (33: 00:00:10 50)

00:00:10 Yeah, I'm at home coffee girl. I don't go to the coffee places. I'll do a small coffee shop every once in a while and overpay $8 for this big of a coffee. But that's usually when I'm traveling. Yeah.

The Hair Game (33: 00:00:10 51)

00:00:10 Ha

00:00:10 So am I.

00:00:10 It is. That's

00:00:10 how much they cost. So there's a coffee shop, it's called McKenna Coffee, was opened up down the street from me today. They've been building it for what seems like five years. They finally opened this place. I walk in and they have all these menu items and they're all like starting at $7.50, $8. They go up to $10 for a drink and I'm like, jeez, I don't know if I'm old or cheap or what.

00:00:10 but I don't know, I know.

Holly Clifford (34: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 No, but people are paying that. People are

00:00:10 paying on a regular basis.

The Hair Game (34: 00:00:10 35)

00:00:10 I know, of course my daughter who's 14, she sees no problem, you know, walking in there and getting an $8, yeah, an $8 sweet slushy drink with matcha in it. That's funny. There's a certain discipline that I like about what you're doing, putting it in there by hand. You know, you've, there's a discipline, there's a recognition of the money, you know, you're aware of it.

Holly Clifford (34: 00:00:10 39)

00:00:10 When you don't have a mortgage.

00:00:10 Yeah. ⁓

The Hair Game (35: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 And with finances, with managing your finances, where you get in trouble, what I've seen out there is when somebody's not paying attention, when they don't know that they've spent $485 on matcha drinks for the month of September, they don't know. And that's when you get yourself in trouble on these things. And the next thing you know, you have $15,000 of credit card debt and you find yourself in trouble.

Holly Clifford (35: 00:00:10 09)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Right. Right.

The Hair Game (35: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 So there's a lot of, there's a discipline nature to what you're doing, which I think is very valuable.

Holly Clifford (35: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 Yeah, I'm extremely disciplined. But I would say that is a huge thing for everyone to look out for and be aware is literally what you're spending money on. If you're not tracking your numbers, it can get a little scary. ⁓ I think Nina is a great person on that, like figuring out how much you should be charging, figuring out how much you need to make. And T, there we go. Yes.

The Hair Game (35: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 Which Nina? Tulio. Yes,

00:00:10 yes, yes she is. She talks about it a lot.

00:00:10 I interviewed Steve Gomez and he's huge about all this. You know, gotta have your eyes on what's going on. And we don't want to, right? So many people don't want to. It's not fun. Sometimes there's shame involved. You you spent $800 on matcha drinks in September. There's shame.

Holly Clifford (36: 00:00:10 03)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Right.

The Hair Game (36: 00:00:10 25)

00:00:10 that comes along with those matcha drinks. And so it's not that fun to feel that, feel bad, you know, that you did that because you think to yourself, you know, I had a great day. I deserve the $12 matcha drink. And then next thing you know, $800 later. Maybe I'm exaggerating with $800. It does. Yeah.

Holly Clifford (36: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 Ha

00:00:10 Right.

00:00:10 Yeah. Yeah, that can add up really quickly. No, but I mean, yeah, it

00:00:10 adds up quickly. And if you're not paying attention, you can definitely get lost in it. And honestly, anytime that I worried about my numbers, like I just went to premiere in May or end of May, and I was spending a lot that convention center. Oh, yeah. I'm spending so much on anything you get a soda out of the vending machine. was $12 for one bottle, a little regular bottle.

The Hair Game (36: 00:00:10 58)

00:00:10 Orlando.

00:00:10 ⁓

00:00:10 Unbelievable.

Holly Clifford (37: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 everything's inflated

00:00:10 on going how should I spend on just food and beverages that weekend. ⁓ But if you're but honestly looking back and checking my numbers and how much I spent I was like OK at least I'm aware I have a budget you know kind of have an idea is what's OK what's not OK don't go crazy I think when you look you'll have less anxiety about it rather than ignoring it and just creating this bigger monster in your head. Because the reality might not be that bad.

The Hair Game (37: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 That's

00:00:10 exactly right. Sometimes there's some anxiety ⁓ right at the front, but then you get a handle on it and there's great relief and then you feel control. And that's very, important for a lot of people. Okay, so we just kind of went into the expense side of the equation, but let's talk about the bringing in money side of the equation. So let's talk about your prices. How have you managed your prices over the last couple of years?

Holly Clifford (37: 00:00:10 39)

00:00:10 but you have to catch it early.

00:00:10 Yes. Yes.

00:00:10 Oh, I love this question. I am not a fan of the phrase charger worth because it can be very, people can be a little bit greedy sometimes and just, I mean, I'd love to think that I'm worth a million dollars, but who's going to pay me a million dollars? So how I choose my pricing is really, I actually check the demographic, the surrounding area. I check the salons, I check the hairstylists and see how much they're charging nearby.

00:00:10 When I moved from San Diego nine years ago, I had to drop my prices because the San Diego cost of living was higher and you could charge more in San Diego. Whereas when I moved here, it's a little bit smaller town, still a good size, but not quite as expensive as San Diego was. So I had to drop a couple of my prices and it's still good pricing. It's very comfortable. But I do check. do research as to what everybody else is charging. And I don't want to be ever the cheapest hairstylist.

00:00:10 But my goal isn't to be the most expensive. I want to be within reason and I can actually, I can validate the cost of my charges, excuse me. I can validate the cost of the services that I give because of the years of experience, almost 20 years, because of the continuous education. So you know that I'm actually a professional expert.

00:00:10 ⁓ And then my work stands out on Instagram. You can see my work. You can see everything I put into it because I'm really passionate about what I do. I absolutely love it. So ⁓ I think putting all those factors together is how you determine your price range. you know, OK, bottom line, this is minimum how much I need to charge. And this is the highest I think I could charge for that. But really doing a little bit of research and being honest with yourself and taking a little recognition and going, OK, have I done this? A, B, C, D. Yes, perfect. How booked out you are.

00:00:10 obviously another factor. If you are fully booked and you can't squeeze in your plants in, that's kind of a problem. That's when you need to raise your prices for sure.

The Hair Game (40: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 Absolutely. ⁓ Going back to post COVID, the industry, we were a little full of ourselves. We had all sorts of policies and boundaries. I remember talking about boundaries every week. know, every guest that I had was boundaries. We've got a cancellation policy that's like, you know, a

Holly Clifford (40: 00:00:10 23)

00:00:10 Anna.

The Hair Game (40: 00:00:10 32)

00:00:10 million dollars if you cancel your appointment and other stuff. And I understood why we did it as an industry. I was cheering us on cautiously because of course some boundaries make sense and some, and the clients are okay. And, the boundaries can get out of hand. And I remember having some conversations with some boundaries that kind of felt out of hand.

Holly Clifford (40: 00:00:10 34)

00:00:10 Yeah.

The Hair Game (41: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 but I wasn't gonna tell my guests that what they were doing wasn't right because I didn't know, I'm not in their business, you know? So what about you? Do you have, ⁓ how do you manage the cancellation policy? How do you manage the, ⁓ like the intake form, you know, stuff like that for new clients?

Holly Clifford (41: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 And.

00:00:10 So I actually love this question and I have heard you talk about this on your podcast before and I think it's very interesting and I do think it's very individualized. ⁓ I know that it can come across on your Instagram as maybe, you know, having your policies listed as controversial or you might put somebody off from booking from you. But for me, it's like, hey,

00:00:10 You know what to expect. This is how what to expect from me. This is how I run my business, such as I do warn them in the policy little highlight section. Hey, if you're running 10, 15 minutes behind, we might not be able to sell and load are you ⁓ I with cancellations or I'm ⁓ you would have to I don't have a cancellation fee. And I know a lot of hairstyles are big on that. I get that. But what tends to happen and what I'm hearing and seeing the most is that people, people will cancel their credit card. So you can't charge anything.

The Hair Game (42: 00:00:10 10)

00:00:10 Mmm.

Holly Clifford (42: 00:00:10 11)

00:00:10 For me, I understand that life happens. Your kids get sick, you get sick, things happen. So I try to have a one-time whoopsie, and then you're gonna, in order to rebook, you're gonna have to pay 50 % of the services. The reason being is you cancel on me for one appointment, so I lost 100 % of those services. If you want me to reschedule another 100%, that's 200 % of services that I'm technically putting at risk to make nothing at.

00:00:10 So I wanna make sure there's some skin in the game and that they put down at least half for the upcoming, which is credited towards their services on that day. And then it just becomes a continuous thing. Once they've canceled one time, it's like, sorry, we gotta have a little skin in the game. And there are understanding of that. Thankfully my clients understand. It's just like the doctor's office. But personally, I don't have a cancellation fee. ⁓ Maybe I should, but it's worked for me this long. And I do feel like clients appreciate it when I don't rattle them back off with,

00:00:10 Okay, great. So sorry to hear you're sick, but you're have to send me da da da da da X amount of dollars because you're sick today.

The Hair Game (43: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. The whoopsie makes a lot of sense because whoopsies happen in life. Whoopsies happen on our side too, on the service provider side. I mean, talk about any time that you've gotten sick and you're like, I just cannot go into the salon. I'm going to cancel my four appointments or whatever today. ⁓ does that happen?

Holly Clifford (43: 00:00:10 17)

00:00:10 Yeah, it works for me.

00:00:10 I am really lucky and people are gonna be annoyed by this answer, but let me back up. I'm really lucky with good health, but I do take very good care of myself. But I did have a very unfortunate year two years ago, where I lost my uncle and my grandfather within 24 hours. So I did, it was, yeah, it was rough. So I had to cancel clients and they were like, my gosh, you never cancel, of course. ⁓ So.

The Hair Game (43: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 haha

00:00:10 ⁓ sorry.

Holly Clifford (44: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 I did have one person and it was one of those things. It's a blessing in disguise. When people are like this, you just got to let them go. Not everybody is for you. Not all money is good money. ⁓ Somebody was messaging me, you know, I let her know, hey, unfortunately I've had family loss. I'm back to back. I'm not going to be able to, I'm not to reschedule you. I don't know what's going for their services, their ceremony. Let me get back to you as soon as possible. Within 24 hours, she had messaged me. Have you figured everything out yet? And I'm going.

00:00:10 I haven't figured out what I'm going to eat today if I'm going to eat. So that was really unfortunate, but I will say my clients were really understanding of that ⁓ because that's just life. We need some grace. And if you do get sick, you get sick. I would rather somebody not come in and service me or vice versa as the service provider. Don't come and get me sick. I don't want to get you sick. Let's not spread it around. So yeah, and it's just again, I can't lose.

The Hair Game (44: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 Right. Yeah.

Holly Clifford (45: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 100 % of the services, but 50%, if you're willing to put something in to secure that time slot, I'll do it.

The Hair Game (45: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 All right. That makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense. All right. Well, what keeps you up at night? I mean, as a hairdresser, you've got a good stable business and stuff like, what keeps you up at night from a business perspective, if anything?

Holly Clifford (45: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 Gosh, I can't stop talking in my own brain at night. So everything keeps me up. I'm always thinking about my business. I am always thinking about what's next. What's next? ⁓ I'm planning currently what hair shows or hair events I'm going to next year and planning those things out dates and what goes with this. So ⁓ as far as a business perspective, what keeps me up at night is just making sure my clients are happy. I would say is the biggest thing that.

00:00:10 makes me sleep easy at night, that they're happy. That makes me ⁓ rest easy. But business-wise, because I stay on top of my numbers, and I will say there are three months at a time that I will not check my numbers, I have this spreadsheet that I can reference to, so I kind of have an idea. Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely blindsided, but I do, you know, I am human. I do take things second nature, and well, I'll get to that later. ⁓ But business-wise, I can't say that something keeps me up at night.

00:00:10 I wish I had something more. It's more about fun stuff, really. It's about what education. Yeah, I really love what I do. ⁓ I think the thing is I rest easy too is if I make a mistake, because I'm human, I am not perfect. Just because it says I'm the best hairstylist does not mean I don't make mistakes. But I actually genuinely will fix it right then. I blow dry, I do you like the tone? Is it perfect? Do you want to change the cut? We can reshape it. We can do anything. I try to fix things right then and there to not have them come back.

The Hair Game (46: 00:00:10 24)

00:00:10 Great. Good. I don't want you to be kept up at night.

Holly Clifford (46: 00:00:10 53)

00:00:10 And that's honestly probably how I sleep so well at night. ⁓

The Hair Game (46: 00:00:10 57)

00:00:10 I love it. Well, that's great.

00:00:10 It's the best possible answer. ⁓ Let's see. Do you have any horror stories?

Holly Clifford (47: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 I just…

00:00:10 So I had when I worked at the chop shop, I had a gentleman walk in with his girlfriend and she's sitting very close nearby in a lobby and I'm getting ready to start his cut and I asked him, okay, what do you like? And he tells me I want one eighth on the sides and da da da da da da and he's telling me I go one eighth. He goes, yeah, I go, you realize that that's teeny tiny tiny. And I'm looking at his hair and I'm like, unless you haven't had a haircut in six months, you are not a one eighth. So I start to.

00:00:10 I start right on the front, right on the sideburns so he could see and possibly correct me because I was expecting to be corrected. I knew and I kept telling him, I don't think that's what you're asking for. But if you're sure. So sure enough, I start. He doesn't say anything. He's just lovely. He's just sitting there watching that short fade go in. His girlfriend jumps up from the lobby and runs across and she's like, what are you doing? That's way too short. And I'm like, I literally asked him three times. He goes, babe.

00:00:10 I know I told her the wrong one she tried to tell me. So I was able to shift it but I had taken off a lot at that point and luckily with men's cuts they do come grow out pretty quickly but that I felt terrible. I'm like sir you don't know what you're talking about. I the poor girlfriend was gonna kill me but luckily it smoothed out really well. think that was I think the most. ⁓

The Hair Game (48: 00:00:10 07)

00:00:10 my God, that's so funny.

00:00:10 So fast.

00:00:10 Yeah, that's really funny.

Holly Clifford (48: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 with the worst situation that could have happened. Yeah, yeah. I could have had, yeah, I could have had a worse situation. ⁓ I worked, thankfully, I was a commissioned stylist at the time. I was a newer stylist and I think a commission is great at beginning stages. I was in a new town, so it helped me build. But anyways, I had a African-American textured hair client come in.

The Hair Game (48: 00:00:10 31)

00:00:10 Yeah, that's not so bad. That's not so bad at all. That's a, can deal with that one.

Holly Clifford (48: 00:00:10 54)

00:00:10 who had booked online and I had never met her before. And personally, I have zero experience with African-American textured hair. I don't have any knowledge. ⁓ She had permanently straightened her hair here down, which is about her ear to the ends. It was perfectly straight. And then her texture at the roots were about six inches. And I looked at her hair and I'm like, okay. You've got some sort of straightening, chemical straightening done. And she wanted a balayage. I'm like, okay.

00:00:10 my spider senses, whatever you call it, or tingling. like, this might not be a good thing. So I walked in the bathroom and I'm talking to the salon owner and I go, she wants a balayage. What do I do? And she's like, you cannot. And I had asked the client, said, do you have any kind of smoothing or straightening system happening to your hair? She said, yeah, it's a Japanese straightening system. I'm like, okay. I didn't know at the time what that meant, but I just knew I needed to be careful. Thank God I asked and didn't just start applying.

00:00:10 So I go in the back room of the salon owners like, do not bleach your hair. If you put any lightener on that hair, it's gonna melt off. So thankfully I went back and I let the client know, said two things. said, number one, I am so sorry. I wouldn't want to do you a disservice by trying to attempt to do your hair when I'm not familiar with this hair type. I said, number two, anyone who is familiar with the texture is gonna know that you should not put lightener on a chemically Japanese straightened hair. ⁓

The Hair Game (50: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Holly Clifford (50: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 And so she was really sweet. Thankfully, like we hugged and laughed at the end, but I felt bad that I had to turn her away. But rightfully so. I would have been doing her a disservice, but I did refer her to a loveless line that she I'm sure would have loved. So yeah, I've kind of avoided. I've been a scared stylist a lot in my career. I've always been like, whatever's scary, I try not to do. I don't push the limits with lightener. I'm a 10-vol girl. The most I'll do is 20-vol. I go low and slow. I check my clients every 15 minutes.

The Hair Game (50: 00:00:10 22)

00:00:10 Yeah. Yeah.

00:00:10 Right, so that's good.

Holly Clifford (50: 00:00:10 46)

00:00:10 I don't double book. am like rigid and OCD and protective of. I do, I actually do. ⁓ I used Olpux when it first came out. ⁓ It's a great system. There's just a lot of steps to it. And when B3 came out, I tried it, fell in love with it. And I've been addicted ever since. ⁓ K18 is probably the new top contender that a lot of people are thrilled about.

The Hair Game (50: 00:00:10 50)

00:00:10 What about bond builders? You use bond builders?

Holly Clifford (51: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 I need to take more education on that before I start using it behind the chair. I've had two classes that they've referenced to it, but I do need to get a little bit more education on that and see ⁓ how to use it correctly and not just trust the product. yeah, it's been, I mean, a decade probably, close to. I've been using it for a long time.

The Hair Game (51: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 Yeah, but B3 is working well, so good.

00:00:10 Love it.

00:00:10 Amazing. Any last words for the community?

Holly Clifford (51: 00:00:10 39)

00:00:10 Just stay inspired, never stop educating yourself, always stay connected to your community. Just because you're in a suite does not mean that you're alone. Go to those hair shows, go network, have fun in the social media world. I can't tell you how much fun I've had meeting people that I've become Instagram friends with and then meeting them in real life is like meeting a long lost friend that you're reunited with and you've never met this person. So yeah, I would say you can easily stay connected wherever you're at, but

00:00:10 Most importantly, continue to grow, continue your education and keep giving your best. And I think, you know, the universe will reward you and pay it back.

The Hair Game (52: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 Absolutely. All right, Holly. This is great. Thanks so much for all this knowledge and sharing.

Holly Clifford (52: 00:00:10 23)

00:00:10 Thank you so much for having me.