How to Be Patient (And Impatient) in Achieving Your Goals w/ Breanne Gershon
Multiple award-winning hairstylist and educator @glam.breanne credits hair competitions in refining her skills as well as adding new ones to her skillset.
Multiple award-winning hairstylist and educator @glam.breanne credits hair competitions in refining her skills as well as adding new ones to her skillset. We discuss the importance of creativity, persistence, and the emotional aspects of sharing art. She also talks about the investment required in the world of editorial work and the balance between artistic expression and commercial success.
The Hair Game (00: 00)
Hey, Brianne, how's it going? I'm doing well. Is this your first ever podcast? Ah, all right, well, this will be your best podcast. How about that?
Breanne (00: 02)
Good, how are you?
This would be my second podcast. But so close. ⁓
I have more experience,
The Hair Game (00: 16)
That's right.
And your experience is gonna shine through for all the listeners. So listeners, I'm on a different microphone today. I'm at home today and I have a bad hair day. So if you're watching, you can, if you're watching on YouTube, you can look at my hat. This is the hat that I put on now and then. And I was just telling Brand, I like hats without any brand on them. It's like the anti-brand hat. It's just blank. So there you go.
Breanne (00: 21)
Yes, let's hope.
No soup.
The Hair Game (00: 46)
I think eight years I've never worn a hat on the podcast. So here we go. It is a big deal. Many guests have worn hats and I never really even notice. And then today I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna leave my hat on. So here we go.
Breanne (00: 51)
it's a big deal!
Something
else? I'm a hat guy today.
The Hair Game (01: 04)
Now I'm a hat guy. Okay, you don't have to wear a hat though because your hair looks great. For those listeners who don't know you, you've won about 8,374,000 awards and we're not gonna go into them all because that's boring. All that people have to know is that you've won a thousand awards. You've won 20, 25 Canadian Hairstyle Colorist of the Year, Avant Garde Hairstylist of the Year.
Breanne (01: 05)
you
Thank you.
The Hair Game (01: 31)
Alberta hairstylist of the year, two Naha awards, 2024 Alberta hairstylist of the year, Canadian makeup artist of the year, know, blah, blah, blah, blah, so many awards. You're like a professional award winner. I think you might have more awards than anyone we've ever interviewed before. Yeah. Well, let's talk about, well, hold on. Before we talk about it, I also want to mention,
Breanne (01: 43)
Thanks.
Apparently.
That's big deal. ⁓
The Hair Game (02: 00)
that you focus on editorial work and you are an educator and you're actually pursuing your bachelor's in education at the University of Alberta, which is super cool. That's unique and we're gonna talk about that too. Let's start from the very beginning of Brianne Gershon. Where are you from and why did you choose this industry?
Breanne (02: 25)
I'm from Medicine Hat, Alberta. For those people who don't know what Alberta is, I call it like, kind of like the Texas of Canada, like very Western vibes, if you will. So I'm from a small town, like 60,000 people. Yeah, and then I moved to Calgary, like a bigger city in Alberta about four or five years ago, so that's where I live now, but that's where I'm from. And how I got into it actually was in high school. I just joined cosmetology.
And sometimes I think about what would happen if I didn't join that class. But anyways, I joined it and I liked it and then just decided to do it.
The Hair Game (03: 03)
So in high school, you knew you wanted to be a hairdresser, or at least knew that you were interested in it.
Breanne (03: 09)
Yeah, I think it always just kind of came naturally. Like I just like enjoyed doing it. I didn't find it difficult or anything. So maybe that's why I liked it. It was like easy. It's not like, ah, you know. So yeah, it just kind of made sense. I don't know. And then when I graduated, I did actually apply to go to university. I got accepted for education and then I withdrew when I found out that you had to pay a lot of money. I like, I don't f-
The Hair Game (03: 21)
Hahaha.
Breanne (03: 35)
I want to do that. So yeah, and then I just decided that I want to make money and I'm just gonna try to get a job in salon. So I did that. ⁓ So yeah, that's how I started when I was 17.
The Hair Game (03: 36)
Yeah.
So you got a job in a salon at 17, and what was that like?
Breanne (03: 49)
Yes.
It was interesting. yeah, so long ago, it was, I don't know, good. Like, it was fun. I felt a little bit unqualified. I mean, I was 17, so even though I had the training in high school, I definitely didn't feel like a professional, like a young professional. was just a girl in a mall, just snipping hair, so, yeah.
The Hair Game (04: 15)
Were you behind the chair right out of the gate? Because 17, I mean you already said it, 17 is so young. You know, it's like a child and all of a sudden you're there and you're gonna have clients and the responsibility of making them look good and stuff.
Breanne (04: 17)
Yeah.
Yeah, so…
Yeah, looking back, there was definitely a few times I skirted the how old are you question. I would be like 20. And then I thought, if I keep these clients for years, eventually they're going to find out that I'm not being honest about my age. But I just didn't want people to be scared when I was cutting their hair. So I didn't tell that fib very often. I definitely felt unqualified when I was very young.
The Hair Game (04: 52)
Yeah?
Were you good at it?
Breanne (05: 02)
I remember like the first haircut I did, ⁓ the manager came over and like checked it, I was an apprentice so she had to check it. She was like, need to fix like this, this, and this. And was like, And then I did my next one, fixed, you know, this, this, and this. And then she's like, it's great. Like you're great, it's fine. So I mean, I don't know if I was good. If I look back at that haircut, it probably wasn't good. But like, I don't think it was bad. Like, I don't think it was awful. So.
The Hair Game (05: 29)
It was good enough the clients liked it, I guess, more often than not. Okay.
Breanne (05: 33)
Yeah, like it was
growing pains, but like I don't think I was like butchering anybody.
The Hair Game (05: 39)
Right, all right, so how long do you spend in the salon?
Breanne (05: 42)
I worked in the salon when I was 17 until 25. Yeah, so I went to a few salons and I had a clientele. think by the time I was like my own clientele renting a chair by the time I was 23. So 23 to 25, I rented a chair. I loved it. I loved having my own schedule, doing my own thing. And then I wanted to move. So I just was gonna leave all my…
The Hair Game (05: 48)
Okay, so pretty good amount of time.
Breanne (06: 10)
So I was like, well, I'm gonna move to a different city. yeah,
The Hair Game (06: 15)
And that's the bummer of moving as a beauty professional because we build up a good clientele, they love us, that's the foundation of our income and stuff. And then to move, you have to start over. Why did you want to move?
Breanne (06: 30)
I think I realized that if I didn't move then, like, when am I ever gonna move? Like I'm 23, like I'm living in my hometown, which wasn't a bad thing, like it's a nice town. But yeah, I just felt like I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing and stuff that I didn't enjoy it, but I just wanted something different and I just couldn't do what I wanted to do there, so.
The Hair Game (06: 52)
Yeah, okay, so where'd you move?
Breanne (06: 55)
I moved to Calgary, which is like, how many people are here? I don't know, a few million? Like it's a big city compared to where I grew up. Yeah, yeah.
The Hair Game (07: 00)
Yeah, Calgary is a big city and it's
not that far. It's within Alberta, within the region, the same region. So you move there and did you find the salon or did you get right into editorial then?
Breanne (07: 08)
Yeah.
So that's when I got into education. So I still have some clients that I do, like if I go home or if they come here, I'll do them kind of here and there. But I recognized when I moved, like I don't know if I want to rebuild a clientele, like maybe I should do something different. So that's when I decided like maybe I'll try to get a job in education. But I had like minimal experience. I was just like, I want to teach. Like I'm gonna do what I can do. So yeah, so I applied for a hair college here. I did that for two years.
And then through that, ⁓ that's how I decided to go full into education and get my degree and all of that. So, yeah.
The Hair Game (07: 52)
Okay, so you didn't build up a clientele. You were committed to being a hairdresser of a different type.
Breanne (07: 59)
Yeah, I was just like, doing it. let's see what happens. Which was a big adjustment from having my own clients, my own schedule, my own income, and like, know, deciding everything to now working in a school where nothing's decided by me. I still struggle with that where I'm like, I think I like doing what I like to do. But yeah, so I did it. So yeah.
The Hair Game (08: 04)
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay, so you became an educator and you sharpened your teeth in that realm and was that fully satisfying to you or it seems to me that You wanted more because you started doing the, when did you start doing editorial? How many years after you started educating did you start doing editorial?
Breanne (08: 43)
Yeah, I started doing it when I still lived in Medicine Hat, when I was still working behind the chair. So I started that when I was, like I started maybe like 19, but I wasn't fully committed to it. I had just heard about competitions and was like, know, entering randomly, but like not consistently or with any skill. So when I was 23, I kind of revisited the idea and was like, I think I want to start competing actually. So yeah, I started.
And then when I moved to Calgary, I had competed for a few years, hadn't won anything. And then yeah, when I moved here and started teaching, just, maybe like, I don't if it's because I had more time, or I was just more committed, or was exposed to more people in Calgary, where I had better options for like, who I wanted for photographers and models, things like that. Like, even the photographer I had in medicine had still shot with me when I moved to Calgary for years, but it was just the expansion, I guess, of my world a little bit, where I was like, more committed to it.
And then I started entering like fully, like doing my best.
The Hair Game (09: 45)
Yeah,
interesting. so. ⁓
So you're entering, there seems to be a correlation between doing editorial work and award shows, right? the editorial can be doing it for an award show or it could be doing it for a client. It could be ⁓ something that's gonna be published in a magazine or something like that. So I'm trying to get, I'm trying to give the listener some idea
Breanne (10: 03)
Thanks.
The Hair Game (10: 21)
if they want to, most of our listeners are behind the chair. They have good incomes, they have clients, they're trying to be better, et cetera, but they're intrigued about what the world of editorial is like. And they recognize that trying to give these kind of extreme looks
can be really educational, it could be really good for them behind the chair and doing services for their clients to some degree, right? Like they may not do some big wig that takes three weeks, and then they're not gonna put it on their client's head, but just in that, it's just good practice to flex your creativity, right?
Breanne (11: 12)
Yeah, absolutely. I think too, I noticed when I got into education and revisited all of the basics that I learned in hair and was teaching them, I became such a better hairstylist. so, like, because I think when you start doing hair, you you have all of the basics, you kind of know how to do everything okay, and then you end up kind of in a niche, which is good, and then you get clients kind of in that, especially like, you know, with specialization of like, know, foillage and balayage and whatever, but.
that's so different from the edge wheel realm or so different from learning finger waves or all of, you know, it's completely different worlds. it's, yeah, the transition between being behind the chair working to doing that work, I think has made me a better hairstylist because I feel like I have so many tools now. Like, I still have all the tools I had behind the chair, but more. Like, so, yeah.
The Hair Game (12: 06)
Sure, but I mean, do you have clients now? Do you work in a salon now and then?
Breanne (12: 11)
A little bit, like it's the least work I do I would say. I do everything else more but I do have clients that have either moved here or still come here on the weekend and you know they're like I'm gonna be here this weekend can we do it? So I have a chair that I rent from a friend just down the street whenever I want. If that's once every month or two months then I just do like a day rate and bring all my clients in and catch up and yeah.
The Hair Game (12: 16)
Okay.
on it.
Got it. Okay, so with the editorial work that you do, it, ⁓ are there brand, are you getting hired by these ⁓ management companies who are for campaigns for brands? Or are you, you,
Breanne (12: 52)
Yes, yeah.
I think it's, if you're going from working behind the chair as a hairstylist to wanting to get into that work, ⁓ you kind of have to know somebody or know what you're doing, right? So it's helpful, I find, that I enter competitions because it's a way of showing what you can do. Because if you can show what you can do, they're like, well, we're gonna hire this hairstylist for this photo shoot because she can do this, right? Whereas if you don't have anything to show, they can see that you
The Hair Game (13: 19)
Got it.
Breanne (13: 22)
do balayage and folayage all day, that's very different than what they might be asking for. So I think it's also like you kind of have to rebuild your portfolio a little bit on your own time, your own dime, your own effort, just what I've done to show that you can do this and that leads to those opportunities where brands are like, hey, I want to hire you for makeup or hair or whatever. yeah.
The Hair Game (13: 28)
Mm-hmm.
Got
it, so it's like marketing yourself, you know, as, yeah, as a top expert and then, because you don't make any money putting in all the work for Naha, right? But you get the notoriety.
Breanne (13: 47)
Yeah.
Exactly, no, there's no, exactly.
it's through that you just get more in the eyes of the people who are gonna be hiring you for that stuff. Whereas if that's not in your realm at all, it's not in your realm at all, right? So, yeah.
The Hair Game (14: 13)
Right.
I mean, the work that you do is unbelievable. Like, I was on your website and I'm looking at this one.
Breanne (14: 25)
Yeah! Thank you!
The Hair Game (14: 27)
You know,
and so is that that's a that's a headpiece, isn't it? Okay. It is a wig. Okay, so ⁓ and and you worked on this piece and by the way listeners, I'm looking at her Instagram page, June 23rd post. It's also all over her website, the same image. And let's see what you won something like live hair fashion awards and creative
Breanne (14: 32)
Yeah, it's like a loop that I made.
The Hair Game (14: 56)
colorist of the year. So, how long did it take you to create this wig?
Breanne (15: 03)
I have to think back to it. It would have taken me probably a week, maybe a little bit more, but by that point that was the last wig I made of that collection, so I was just breezing through it. Whereas the other two I built first, so they probably took me longer, maybe like a week or maybe two.
The Hair Game (15: 23)
and they're all in a similar kind of style.
Breanne (15: 26)
Yeah, they are.
The Hair Game (15: 29)
So how do you get the idea for something like this?
Breanne (15: 33)
It's always interesting, like the ideas evolve. So it might start as an idea like that. I had this idea that I wanted like hair to look like ⁓ melting paint somehow. Like I was like, want it to have that like cascading kind of look. But then I realized like through practicing that it was not looking like that, how I had envisioned it. So I was kind of just playing around with hair. And then I realized it looked much better with a lot more volume and in those shapes. So.
The Hair Game (15: 45)
Hmm
Mm-hmm
Breanne (16: 03)
It kind of just evolves as I do it, but usually I just, I don't know, I'll be on Pinterest or Google or just see something that I'm like, I wonder if I can do that with hair and then just see if I can.
The Hair Game (16: 14)
I mean, it kind of looks like that. It looks a little more like swirled paint. know, if, yeah, yeah, which is really amazing. Just, I can't stop looking at it. And the colors that you chose were, you know, fascinating and beautiful. ⁓ Is this, what's the material of the hair? Is this real hair?
Breanne (16: 18)
Yes, I would agree.
It's a combination, so it's a combination of real and synthetic. So I mix a lot of hair together and like depending on the color and what I have. Like a lot of it's just like, what do I have? Or like I'll go, I'll buy hair if I need to, but a lot of it is more like, what have I used up, what colors are complimentary, and then I just put it all together. Yeah.
The Hair Game (16: 45)
Okay.
Interesting.
And so how long are these wefts? Are these like, these must be 30 inch, something like that.
Breanne (17: 02)
They were around like,
ah, some of them could be, some of them around like 18 to 20, I would say. Some are shorter, some are long.
The Hair Game (17: 08)
Okay.
So there's real money in this. I mean, because I know that hair is expensive. Of course, the natural hair is more expensive. The hair that we use for extensions is more expensive. This maybe is different than that, because some of it's synthetic. So it's not gonna be as, but I imagine it's probably, you know, just in the raw materials is a decent amount of money. Is that right?
Breanne (17: 29)
It most
definitely is, yeah. I always joke that I'm like, I fund my life by working, but it all goes back into this stuff. It's almost like it equalizes. So the car I drive or the other financial decisions I make are based on what money's going into the hair and what money do I have left. So it is my priority. And I kind of believe that if you wanna do it, do it. You gotta…
be willing to put something on the line, you know?
The Hair Game (18: 01)
Yeah, sacrifice.
Breanne (18: 03)
It's a big sacrifice, yeah.
The Hair Game (18: 06)
That's the part that nobody really wants to do.
Breanne (18: 08)
And it's so funny, yeah, because it's like, sometimes think if only people knew how much money or how much time and effort and my own private time and frustrations and work into it, I don't know if they'd want to do it. I like to it.
The Hair Game (18: 22)
Well, that's why we're talking.
That's why we're talking because I like to talk about those kinds of things because I'm not so sure, kind like you said, people don't know. so it's, yeah. So you're basically talking about spending a week, at least a week on this one wig and maybe $1,000 in cost.
Breanne (18: 34)
I don't think you do.
The Hair Game (18: 51)
and you're not gonna get any money for it. So you're basically investing in, yeah, zero money. Zero money. Yes, actually costing you money.
Breanne (18: 55)
zero Like I'm talking zero zero You get a war
Yeah, it costs me money. Yes
The Hair Game (19: 08)
Right? You get awards, the awards don't pay you money, ⁓ but you're…
Breanne (19: 11)
And that's why people don't know. A lot of people out of the industry
actually ask me, like, you know, my partner's family or even like people that don't know much about the industry, like, my God, you must get like, I got 20,000 cash prize and I'm like, wow, I wish, like, no, not at all. But a lot of competitions you do in other industries, so.
The Hair Game (19: 32)
Yeah.
I wonder, do like the Grammys pay money? I don't think so.
Breanne (19: 36)
I don't know.
I don't know. Like I've heard of like, I can't remember what it's called, some kind of style icon fashion competition recently. I've seen it come up on my feed. I actually entered it and I don't really know what it was. But yeah, you get like $20,000 if you win it or something and I'm like, oh, this is a paid competition. Like these exist. Like, cool. Yeah.
The Hair Game (19: 55)
Wow,
that's interesting. I imagine the Grammys, they don't pay you money. Because everybody who wins the Grammys rich. So I don't know, they're already rich. Why are they getting more money? Yeah, I know. Exactly. Yeah, and they want their hair and makeup for free, which is bullshit. We should do an episode on that, bullshit. That'll be the title of the episode.
Breanne (20: 02)
We're already rich. Yeah. They should just keep us in their stylist and makeup artists. Like, holy shit.
Yeah! Isn't that wild? yeah. Yeah. Yeah? Totally. Like…
Yeah.
The Hair Game (20: 24)
⁓ Okay, so you're spending a tremendous amount of time, you're spending a decent amount of money on this stuff, you're making zero money in return, but this is, we can chalk this up to an investment in marketing yourself to then get hired by a brand to do like real editorial work that is in their advertising, yeah?
Breanne (20: 38)
Yes.
Yeah, it is. I think it's so interesting because it's like, I always find like, this is just a comparison of like, and I shouldn't say men and women because it's not just men and women, but I have female friends who are very entrepreneur and like, ⁓ financially driven. But I'm not that way. Like I think I'm so much more of a creative mind. So for me, like it's nice. And like, of course I have goals that I want to be hired to do these things, but even if I didn't.
I like doing it so much, I would still do it. And I think that's what keeps me going and why I've had success doing it is because I don't do it for the external jobs or I don't get demotivated if I don't get them. I'm doing it because I just really like doing it and I would do it anyways. yeah. yes, of course, you are investing it into hopefully getting paid to do it one day and then you do land those jobs and you're like, I wouldn't have got those if I didn't do this. So, yeah.
The Hair Game (21: 43)
And this is probably why you've been so successful and you won so many awards, ⁓ because you really enjoy doing it. And you enjoy it despite the difficulty of it. Like you described a minute ago, you described how when you were trying to do the melted paint idea, it wasn't working, right? That's ⁓ the creative process. You try different things.
Breanne (21: 52)
Yeah. Yeah.
The Hair Game (22: 12)
with different materials. ⁓ It's a really interesting kind of expression of art. It's like sculpture, isn't it? And so I'm sure there's frustrating parts where you put a lot of, again, you put the time, you put the money, and then you're not getting the result that you want. And it's like, wow.
Breanne (22: 20)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and I think the interesting thing about it too is that unlike a job where you're getting financial rewards back, you really are getting nothing back for it, or you really don't know if you're going to in any capacity. You're just kind of putting it out there hoping someone likes it, and if they don't, you're like, well, I've spent all of that to do it, but I kind of think that's the only way to actually get those external rewards is to go in all the way and do it, put all you have into it.
The Hair Game (22: 46)
Zero.
Breanne (23: 05)
don't do it because then if you're doing it halfway and you end up as a finalist or semi-finalist you go to the award show and you're I've done that for years you're a little bit disappointed because you're like well I I did my best but and I say this because I like coach students with competitions and stuff like just because it's your first time doing it it's not the world's first time seeing it right like you have to remember we get so attached to our work that we think it's like it's our baby we want these results but you have to just put it out and be like
The Hair Game (23: 05)
Yeah.
Breanne (23: 34)
people don't like it, they don't like it and that's a part of it like yeah yeah
The Hair Game (23: 38)
That's a part of it.
So do you kind of have a process of, ⁓ you know, self analysis of your work? Well, I shouldn't say self analysis, maybe like third party analysis where you try to remove those emotions or that bias. And then you try to kind of wash your brain and then open your eyes and try to look at it as if somebody's never seen it before.
Breanne (23: 54)
Yeah.
Yeah, honestly, it's weird because I almost don't have to think about doing it because I don't know how to say this. I don't really like anything that I do when I'm doing it. So I have such a critical eye that while I'm doing it I'm like, this looks bad, this looks bad. I'm like flaw-finding. Like, I'm very detail-oriented. I joke about it all the time with my partner. I am like the most detail-oriented. Some people are big picture thinkers. I'm not a big picture thinker. I can zone in when I'm doing it and be like, this looks bad, this looks bad. Let me fix this, let me fix that.
Let me make this, it's all about having the eye to make something look beautiful. And then when it's beautiful, no one wants to stop. And then, then I'll see external opinions usually of people in the industry that I know, honestly just my friends, who I'm just like, hey, I sent them a photo, does this look normal? And they're like, yeah, I could see that going somewhere. Because usually I don't see that with my own work. I'm like, no, it's not gonna land, but I need that external to be like, no, with the lighting's on it and when.
you have the outfit, it's gonna come together. So, yeah.
The Hair Game (25: 06)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I mean, this sounds like the mind of an artist. You're very detail-oriented. You're probably a perfectionist. However, you have to, as ⁓ Steve Jobs once said, you have artist ship, he famously said. Meaning, you're not an artist until you put your work out into the world and bear the…
the consequences of people giving their opinions about it.
Breanne (25: 40)
Absolutely, and I'm my own worst critic I am such a perfectionist that I will do a shoot submit it off and other people might be like Oh, I love this look, but if I don't like the look I'm like, they like that look. Okay, like you know, right? It's even sometimes I sometimes don't even like my own stuff So like most of the time I do but sometimes I don't so yeah, I think it is sort of vulnerable I had a friend actually make me like she mailed me a happy birthday card and her and her kids got together and they were
The Hair Game (25: 52)
That's the thing.
Breanne (26: 09)
made this card for me, it was so sweet, for like my 30th birthday. We were on the phone talking about it and she said that she felt vulnerable making this card and mailing it me. And she wrote that in the card, it made me realize this art that you do, putting it out, you must feel so vulnerable to what other people think, because I was worried that my card art wasn't. And I'm like, that's exactly what it is, you put it out and you're like, it looks good. You know, like, yeah, yeah.
The Hair Game (26: 33)
Yeah. I hope they like me, right?
I mean, I'm sure we identify ourselves to some degree based on what people think about the art that we put out there. And that's the vulnerability that you're talking about. And it's so interesting. I've known people who are very, very, very good artists and they don't want anyone to see their art. They don't even put it in their house.
Breanne (26: 49)
Yeah.
The Hair Game (27: 02)
for their best friends or family to see it. And I always think, God, what a shame that they are unwilling to kind of put it out there, you know, for fear that they're gonna, somebody might say something that they're gonna feel bad about and they're not gonna be able to recover from it or something. Yeah, yeah.
Breanne (27: 21)
It's like an exercise
in like having to really like take your there's like the fear part of it but also like the ego part of it up to just like I just remind myself like all the best people who make the best work also make bad work sometimes it's okay if not everything I do is a hit it's okay if I put something out but that's okay like it people a lot nobody really cares as much as we care about no one cares really at all so it's if we internalize it so much like
The Hair Game (27: 38)
Totally.
Totally.
Yeah.
Breanne (27: 51)
unnecessarily but it's almost impossible not to do it because it's so we put so much of ourself into it how do you not get attached to it and want it to do well like
The Hair Game (28: 00)
Totally, totally. I was watching the ⁓ Billy Joel documentary the other day. I think it's on maybe Netflix or Amazon Prime or one of those. And my wife and I were watching it. And a decent amount of the documentary was how the critics would pan him all the time. He would put out ⁓ an album and the critics would say how horrible it is and how
how affected he was and he would be talking about it now, know, decades later, he's probably 75 years old. And he would talk about how much he didn't like that. And it took him a long time to get used to the critics not liking him very much. And of course, this is in the backdrop of him being one of the most famous singers in the world, but he was still very, you know, he was hurt for the longest time that
a couple critics would say that his album was bad, ⁓ even though he selling millions of copies, right?
Breanne (29: 02)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think because when you're selling, well, I think maybe because when you're selling millions of copies of something, it's obviously landing well for a reason, but it's maybe landing so well because the person who made it is so aware of the good and the bad of it. There's an awareness part sometimes of how to do it, so they already know maybe the…
the cringy parts of the parts that they're like, that could have been better. So when someone else says it, it's like, you're like, my God, other people see that too. Like, that doesn't feel good, right? But it's insane, yeah, you can have massive success but still be like, ⁓ you know?
The Hair Game (29: 39)
Yeah.
Life
isn't perfect. Nothing's perfect. Don't expect it to be perfect. I find that the people who don't put up their stuff, who love painting and love doing it, love producing art, but then they hide it. ⁓ I find that they almost hide behind this idea of perfect.
Breanne (29: 51)
Yeah.
Absolutely, and I think too, you'll never find someone who's putting their work out there being vulnerable, being a critic, like ever. Because they totally respect what other people are doing and they see it, they see it. But if you're not putting it out there, it's so much easier to feel negative feelings inside about the whole thing and just kind of shy away from it, whereas if you're doing it, you're like, good for you.
The Hair Game (30: 20)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Kind of reminds me of a lot of the sensitivity around posting things on Instagram or TikTok, right? Within the hair community, nobody wants the, there might be 80 really nice comments and there's one comment of some asshole who says,
You know, I've seen this a hundred times, know, but better versions or something. And I know people who don't want to post because of the potential, the possibility of this one asshole comment.
Breanne (31: 00)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, totally. it's just, yeah, putting yourself out there is so much worse to some people than to just put it out there and have to live with it. There's always the delete button. You delete the comment, delete the post, move on. That's true.
The Hair Game (31: 23)
You can delete the guy. Yeah, but it still is there in the psyche. And then they're like going to bed
at night and they're like, God, who was that guy? can't believe they didn't like, you know, it ruins the whole thing.
Breanne (31: 33)
Yeah, you have to
like really tell yourself to not let it bother you, know, like I don't get hate comments because I'm not big into posting stuff like that, but I can't even really imagine if I did get hate comments like how would I? I know. I probably just have to be like, I don't just put it out of my mind like
The Hair Game (31: 38)
You have to, exactly.
That's where meditation comes in, to grab control over your thoughts and be able to just extinguish the bad ones. Because human nature has us kind of wallowing in them, right? The one out of 80 comments, it has us wallowing in that one stupid comment, doesn't it?
Breanne (31: 57)
Thank
Yeah. ⁓
Yeah,
totally.
The Hair Game (32: 17)
Very interesting. All right, so ⁓ what is your, I'm trying to get like the ratio of how much time you spend between doing these kind of, these rather costly ⁓ award ⁓ editorial shoots versus the ones you actually get paid for.
Breanne (32: 36)
Yeah, so I would say the ratio to what I do versus what I get back, kind well, I'm thinking about it. Like, yeah. Yeah.
The Hair Game (32: 46)
Like how much of your, let's take a month period of time. How much
time during the last month did you spend on award related ⁓ shoots and work versus stuff that you're getting paid for?
Breanne (33: 03)
So, it's interesting, so I'm a teacher, so it's kind of a, so I would like, how do I like explain it? so. Yeah.
The Hair Game (33: 11)
Well, you could throw that in. You could throw that in. you spend,
you you have three things that maybe you're primarily doing right now. So how much is education? Yeah.
Breanne (33: 17)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, so like my like nine to five is I'm teaching and finishing my degree. So I'm teaching under a letter of authority basically in high schools. So while I finish my degree, teach, yeah, I can teach cosmetology, aesthetics, hair, makeup, all of it. So that funds like my life. And then on the weekends, I'll take clients.
The Hair Game (33: 32)
Hair.
Breanne (33: 42)
things like that, or I'll have independent contract jobs, like doing, I did a photo shoot where I did makeup for Bed Head, or I went to Las Vegas and did master classes. So it really depends on the month. It depends on did I get hired that month to do extra work on top of my nine to five work, or did I take clients or things like that. So.
I mean the ratio of what I put into it versus what I get back, would say it definitely like, oh, I'm trying to think if it would equalize. Over a year period, I wouldn't say it would equalize. Like I'm definitely spending more into it than I'm getting back. Yeah, but with my nine to five it equals. Like definitely, because I'm, yeah. Yeah.
The Hair Game (34: 20)
Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Now it makes sense. It makes sense. makes
sense. It's really a labor of love. And I almost feel like it's a gift to the industry. I mean, I, sounds maybe a little cheesy, like I'm buttering you up. I'm the reason to butter you up, but it does. mean, it seems like a gift to, to the industry to see it's like a gift of art, you know, with art, within our industry. And I think it's really,
Breanne (34: 35)
No, it's so nice.
The Hair Game (34: 50)
Amazing.
Breanne (34: 51)
Yeah, think like art, it's really nice of you to say that, first of all. It's very nice and yeah, I think that like the art in its most like pure form, like to not get, again, cheesy talking about it, but it is so pure. Like I feel like there's so much of like, I mean it's been like this forever in every industry of learning this. As I get older to my 30s, everything is about money. It's always about capitalizing on everything. That's what makes the world turn. But there's something about art that you can't.
just because you have a lot of money doesn't mean you can do good art, right? I do think it's a gift that if you pour into it, it gives back to you, but it's so much more intrinsic usually than what you get back monetarily because I can tell when I'm looking at other people's photos, that's art, right? That person did that from something in their mind that they pulled out, nobody paid them to do that, there's nothing that they could pay to do it. They just did it because they could see it. That I think is what makes it special.
I think for me, that's why I make that sacrifice of even if I'm not booking all of the jobs yet that I want, monetarily, what I get to do is so fulfilling in that way that there's no, what's the word? Nothing takes away from the pureness of it, because I don't need money back. I like money back for it, but I don't need it, because I have a job. I can do clients, I can teach, I can do a lot of things for money, and it helps you be kind of choosy, because if I…
The Hair Game (36: 16)
Yeah,
sure, it supports it. It does support it.
Breanne (36: 18)
Yeah, it supports
it and it keeps it pure. It keeps it about the art. There's nothing that there's, I won't spare any expense and it's for the art. And I won't allow my, I guess, artistic integrity to be sacrificed for money. So to do that you have to have job and have money, right? Or else if you rely on it too much for your income then you're not creating from like a pure place. You're like, give me something back, you know? Like, does that make sense? Yeah.
The Hair Game (36: 32)
Right.
Right.
Yeah,
no it does. And maybe that's what makes you special is that that's kind of a hard thing to find in someone. Like their passion is so deep to do something so hard and creative and you're willing to put it out there that there's just not a whole lot of use, I think. And then when I said that doing that kind of work supports your
Job, I don't mean money wise, I mean in terms of your practice, your exercise, your craft, your credibility, all that kind of stuff.
Breanne (37: 26)
Yeah,
definitely. And I think that investment in it, it gives you the reputation of what's important to you. And I think that in valuing your own creations in that way, it sort of forces other people to, right? Yeah, I don't know. it's, I feel it kind of like, if I get hired for something, it's because they know there's a certain expectation that's gonna come out of it. The work's gonna be,
as good as it possibly can be because that's who I am. Like, through and through in the work it won't falter. Obviously I'm human, but like, that's what makes it special too, I think is the attention to detail and the perfectionism that makes people hireable for the certain jobs, right? So you're right in that, that you are kind of like showing that in investing in the work to, I don't know, I know how the words work, to attract what you're putting out, I guess.
The Hair Game (38: 23)
Yeah, that's, yeah, it's hard to describe, but really amazing what you're doing. I really want the listeners to go to your website and check it out and to go to your gram. You have some of your work on your gram, but you don't have a lot of it. ⁓ Well, yeah, yeah, you do, sorry. I just didn't scroll down far enough. ⁓
Breanne (38: 46)
That's okay. I don't know who loves my post. Who knows? Maybe
I don't.
The Hair Game (38: 53)
You're like,
you're not on the right Instagram page. Okay, I see it now. All right, so give me some other kind of sources of inspiration, because I could see people looking at this and they're like, my God, never seen anything like that. Like, where does that come from?
Breanne (39: 10)
Yeah, think like the, I don't wanna say the older I get, I'm 30, but like as I age, I think like my style becomes more apparent to me. So a lot of it comes through fashion. Like I think that everyone kinda has their own touch they put on hair they do. So I would say just knowing myself, knowing what I like. So when I'm looking at photos, like I'll often make a mood board or I'll be thrifting and I'll see something and like just, I think so much of it is just having an eye
like. Everyone has different preferences for me. I like, you know, really like Barbie-esque, sort of like pretty hair, but like kind of edgy still. I don't know how I would describe my own style, but I just know when I see something I like, I like it. So I do a lot of group boards before I do any shoot. get like a very clear vision of like what's the vibe. So fashion. Sum it up a little more fashion.
The Hair Game (40: 04)
Okay, and
your mood boards are, ⁓ like how detailed are they? Like how long does it take you to do a mood board?
Breanne (40: 15)
Like I can do a mood board quick.
The Hair Game (40: 17)
Okay, are you like drawing on a piece of paper with some colored pencils or something?
Breanne (40: 20)
Sometimes. Yeah. So I
used to do it all on paper. So I would like draw certain, well I still do, I guess I do a combination. So I'll look at photos of hair, photos of makeup I like, and find shapes or themes, or I'll just start pinning things. I'll just pin things I like, and then I'll notice a theme after. So I'll go back and look at the board and see, ⁓ I like a lot of these curved shapes, so how about I make it more curved? So there's always kind of a thread of a theme.
And if I get a little off that, where I'm like, okay, the theme is curved and I'm now making something spiky, well maybe that's for another collection. So I've had to learn to kind of like discard some ideas. Because when you're in that creative mindset, you just get so many ideas that you can sometimes throw them all together and it doesn't work. So there has to be a bit of process of like sifting.
The Hair Game (40: 59)
Mmm.
Right.
Right, sifting, categorizing between the ideas that'll work together and those that might be good ideas just in a different context.
Breanne (41: 19)
Yeah.
Yeah, and that's hard. I think that I used to just put so much random stuff together and be like, in my head, I thought it would, but now I've learned to be like, it down. Like, keep reducing it to like, what's the theme here, you know?
The Hair Game (41: 39)
Very interesting. see you've got a post of you in an art gallery and you're probably getting inspiration there. Yeah. I'm sorry? Yeah. I've scrolled down quite a bit. well, very cool. All right. Well.
Breanne (41: 52)
Yes, I probably was. I probably was. Yeah, I don't know what gallery it is. I don't know how long ago, but yes, I do go to art galleries too.
Hahaha
The Hair Game (42: 09)
Do you have any editorial hair horror stories?
Breanne (42: 13)
that's a really good question. Horror stories.
The Hair Game (42: 17)
Something goes wrong. And maybe it's not, it doesn't have to be you, it could be somebody else.
Breanne (42: 21)
Yeah.
I
have one story come to mind, but I don't think I want to tell that one. So I'm trying to think of another one. I don't know. You know what? You want to close my arms? Here we go. So, yeah, so when you're doing these shoots, like, you know, you never know who your model is. Like, you see what they look like, but you don't know how they're going to pull off a look, right? Like, you can see all you want through, like, a booking site, but that's what you see.
The Hair Game (42: 31)
Why not? No, you have to tell now. If it yeah, that's a podcast rule. If it comes to your mind and you have to say it.
Breanne (42: 54)
So I was doing a photo shoot and I had a few models and one of the models was just like totally not into it. Like I don't know if she was having a bad day. I think it was just who she was kind of as an individual. Like I don't think modeling was for her. I don't think she was enjoying it. And it's like, ⁓ we talked about how much money and time is being put into this. So when you're finally putting it on someone and you're like, putting it up and it's the person's just like, whatever. You're just like, ⁓ my God.
The Hair Game (43: 23)
Yeah, you're
like, get excited!
Breanne (43: 25)
Yeah, I was like, and the thing is, is like I have to say too, like this is like 0.001 this ever happens. Like 99 % of people are so excited and are like, this is so cool. I can't wait to, I get to wear this. This is the weirdest, coolest thing. When people get really into it, they're taking selfies with it. Cause it's weird stuff, right? But some people are just, they, don't think they want to be a model or they don't know what being a model entails. I don't know, but this, she just was not happy to be there. And it was like, it was hard for me because I was like, you know, I want you to.
The Hair Game (43: 42)
Yeah.
Right.
Breanne (43: 55)
Why are you serving this and you're just serving nothing for me? So it's fine. Sometimes those photos just get cut, but you know, you're paying for it all. So you're kind of like, hey, like, she was. I think she was getting paid. And if someone's not getting paid, yeah, so if someone's not getting paid, then I'd be like, whatever. Like that's, I understand. It's no commitment, but it's fine. Because sometimes like in the past, in my early shoots, I was just doing it on people I would find in the street. So nobody was gonna pay for anything.
The Hair Game (43: 58)
Yeah.
she's getting paid. Well, you're paying the photographer maybe. She was getting paid? ⁓
Yeah.
You
Breanne (44: 24)
And those
people were so excited. they were like, but sometimes people who were getting paid are just like, you know, they have an attitude, not really into it. And that's my only horror story. And I didn't want to say it, because I don't want any models to like, be like, was it me? Or like, no. I don't think this model was Yeah. You know, I don't think they'll know. You killed the vibe. but you know what?
The Hair Game (44: 40)
You know who you are. You're listening and you know it you. You were in a bad mood that day and it showed. You killed the,
Breanne (44: 52)
The photos still turned
The Hair Game (44: 52)
hmm.
Breanne (44: 53)
out great. So like the rest of the collection is amazing. Cut a few photos, who cares?
The Hair Game (44: 57)
Did you or did you not win an award for that? Or was that a paid job?
Breanne (45: 02)
I will,
what's that word for people to say? I'll plead the fifth. No, because I feel like that narrows it down. I guess maybe it doesn't, because I've won awards over few years, so it doesn't narrow it down. So I did win an award with that collection, yes.
The Hair Game (45: 06)
Yeah, I'll play the fifth. See… because it was the one time you didn't win an award?
Well that doesn't narrow it down.
Breanne (45: 21)
I was just gonna say I thought it would, but it didn't, so…
The Hair Game (45: 24)
So I guess
it was just fine and she earned her money because you won the award anyway. And maybe it was kind of like the sullen look of the model that kind of gave it an air of like melancholy.
Breanne (45: 39)
She gave it a little bit of edge and it's
good for her. ⁓
The Hair Game (45: 43)
And the judges were like, ooh, I love the contrapposto of the melancholy with the bright hair. Never seen anything like that. The models were always smiling and happy. This one, this one is dark and moody.
Breanne (45: 45)
Yes.
Totally. Totally. This one was enough.
It worked out, so thank you to that model, because everything happens for a reason.
The Hair Game (46: 05)
I love it. Any last words for the community?
Breanne (46: 09)
Yeah, I would say just because it's hard doesn't mean that it's not worth it. think that like, I don't know, I teach a lot of like the younger generation and I think that like the salon culture, I guess as a whole has changed so much for the better in so many ways. And in some ways it's changed in ways that like, I don't know, like I really love like.
OG hairstylists. Like that I like. Like I look at like my hair icons are like Robert LaBetta, like Damien Carney. Like that part of the industry, like I don't think that it's dying and it ever will. But like I put so much respect on that. I kind of view it as like there's new, new generation hairstylists and old generation. And like I work with the new, but I love the old. So I want to like try to continue.
with that and there's standards to this, right? Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not worth it. So these looks that I'm doing, I think that, we talked about how hard it is, but I'm proud of the work I've done. I like what I'm doing and I think it's fun, I think it's cool and I want to do that work. I think that what I would say to all hairstylists of any age, but especially because I work with youth, it's just like, know, all good, what's that saying? All good things are hard. There's nothing without sack.
It's like, it's so, I don't know, I'm happy with what I've done and I would do it again. Like all the hard work too. ⁓
The Hair Game (47: 37)
I think.
think that's great. I think there's a very strong correlation between things that are valuable and things that are hard. You know, the easy things don't tend to be valuable.
Breanne (47: 50)
Yeah, yeah, it is.
Exactly exactly and I just that's that's if I could say one thing that's what I would say is like When I'm doing these things I'm thinking oh my god, it's so hard, but then afterwards. I'm just like It was worth it it was so worth it like
The Hair Game (48: 09)
That's funny.
Things that are easy, everybody's doing those things and that's why they're not valuable because they're common. Yeah. towards the things that are difficult. If you find something that's interesting to you and it's difficult, then maybe that's exactly the type of thing that you should be spending your time and energy on.
Breanne (48: 17)
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Exactly, and I think too, if it's just a part of the creative or learning or any kind of process, it's usually the beginning, you do suck at it and it's hard. And if you don't push through that, well then you just move on to the next thing. And I think my success really has come from I just didn't move on to the next thing. I just stuck with my thing. And that's really what it comes down to is there's been lots of times I could have ventured on something else, but I stuck with it and I've been doing it, I've been in the industry now
like how old, I'm 30, it started when I was like 17, so it was about 13 years, so yeah, and like I'm gonna keep doing it forever, like, cause I just, why not? I think people should just stick to things that they like doing and get over the hard
The Hair Game (49: 20)
think you're absolutely
right. You're absolutely right. think most people, and again, this is what separates the most people from the people who do things that are special. The people who do things that are special, they have that grit and tenacity to stick it out. You know, they put in the 10,000 hours. So you've heard the 10,000 hours to become an expert, you know, or to master something.
Breanne (49: 45)
Yeah.
The Hair Game (49: 45)
especially if you're talking about art or something creative, you wanna master something, takes 10,000 hours. That by definition, that's difficult, right? Something that takes 10,000 hours. And a lot of people just kind of give up before, well before the 10,000 hours. So.
Breanne (50: 04)
Absolutely, and I think
like it's we especially with social media and like just like technology in general everything is so fast I think that we're so used to just things happening so quickly and I think that's something that we don't necessarily teach all the time I know this because my teachers that like I think and maybe I expected this to go I just don't remember things and I probably did thought I would have a clientele faster than I would or thought I would have this faster than I would but I've just learned that like
The Hair Game (50: 20)
Yeah.
Breanne (50: 31)
Good things just take time. Like you just literally have to keep doing it. It doesn't matter if you're bad at it. It doesn't matter whatever the barriers, if you just keep doing it, you're so far ahead of other people who just stop doing it. That's all you really have to do. And you probably know that with your podcast too. It's like, it probably wasn't a hit from the first episode, but you keep doing it and then it just picks up. But if you stop doing it, I'm being redundant, you know.
The Hair Game (50: 47)
Totally.
Yeah.
And now look how good I am at it. I'm kidding. That was a joke. That was a poking fun at myself. ⁓ Well, look how amazing I am at being a podcast host. No, I'm 100 % making fun of myself. However, there is some, ⁓ there's 100 % a correlation between what you're saying and…
Breanne (51: 02)
Yeah, look!
No, you are really good at it. This is a good conversation.
The Hair Game (51: 26)
We have the first episode of this podcast that is available to watch and listen to on any of the platforms. If you wanna watch it, it's excruciating. It's on YouTube. It was with Andrew Does Hair. It was about eight years ago and it was god awful. my God, I was so nervous. I had this little microphone that I bought at Best Buy and I taped it to the end of a comb.
Breanne (51: 36)
Google Watch now.
The Hair Game (51: 53)
And I held it up to Andrew, it was in person, and I held it up to Andrew Does Hair, everybody knows Andrew Does Hair, and I held it up to him, and I asked some kind of like boring questions, like I wrote a script in advance, and Andrew was looking at me like, Andrew had done 500 interviews, you know, and he looked at me like, what the hell am I doing here with Eric? This is like, like he knew.
We knew each other before, but not as me being an interviewer. So it's horrible. And so, yes, now it's less horrible. ⁓ But everything that you're saying is 100 % correct. ⁓ If you want to do something highly valuable and very great, then it's gonna take a lot of time. And by the way, I'll boil down to 10,000 hours. ⁓ If you were to do something full time for a year,
Breanne (52: 24)
you
The Hair Game (52: 49)
it's about 2,000 hours. So you figure like when you get a job, you work 40 hours a week, know, 40 times 52 weeks minus you take two weeks off or whatever. So 50 times 40, it's 2,000. So 2,000 hours, 10,000 divided by 2,000, that's five years. So if you wanna do something really good, you wanna become so good at it that you're gonna, our expert level, it's gonna take five years. And that's five years full time.
Breanne (53: 18)
full time and not even before if you changed your mind, right? Like you might start an error and like I felt like after five years I had my own business, I loved what I was doing, but then I was like, I think I'm gonna do something else. And then another five years later focusing on that, it's like, you know, to find what you really like. So.
The Hair Game (53: 19)
So.
if change your mind.
Right.
Yes,
it takes that long. the younger generation, I think every younger generation probably was impatient, maybe.
Breanne (53: 46)
Yeah, and like I've been patient.
When I want something, I'm like I want it now. But I think that there's that sense, I think there's a good thing about giving yourself a sense of urgency because if I were like, oh it'll happen at some point, like I always have been thought of like at some point in my lifetime I would like to win an award. But it wasn't until I was like, I want to win at least one award before I'm 30 that I actually got subtraction because I gave myself like, if I'm not putting in the workout, this isn't gonna happen.
The Hair Game (53: 52)
Yeah.
Yes.
Breanne (54: 16)
So, yeah.
The Hair Game (54: 16)
Right?
Yeah. So I think that the ideal way to look at it is to be impatient on a day-to-day basis. Like today, I'm gonna wake up and ⁓ I'm gonna get to it, know, whatever it is. ⁓ And so I think you need the impatience on a daily basis, however, you need the patience in a longer term sense. So…
Breanne (54: 32)
Yeah.
The Hair Game (54: 43)
So don't be impatient every day for a month and then be like, it's already been a month, you know, and I'm not where I should be. No, no, no. In that regard, the longer term ⁓ perspective, you need to be patient, but on a day-to-day basis, you need to be impatient. And most people are the exact opposite. They think on a…
Breanne (55: 02)
Absolutely. That's so funny. That's
perfect way to put it. like very impatient.
The Hair Game (55: 07)
on a day-to-day basis.
Yeah. And the problem with that is that then you pick up your phone and you start scrolling Instagram instead of getting to it. And then, yeah.
Breanne (55: 18)
I think, yeah,
when you set, for me, I'm goal oriented. If I set a goal for myself, if I don't set that goal, then I don't feel guilty scrolling on my phone. But if I set the goal and I know if I don't reach this goal, the only person who's gonna have to live with me is me and I'm gonna look back at myself and be like, well, I know I could've done better. I hate that feeling. hate, that's what actually, what I avoided. I hate the feeling of I could've done better.
The Hair Game (55: 41)
Yeah, I know.
Breanne (55: 46)
So I at all costs try to avoid that. So by setting goals, I know when I'm not doing what I need to do to reach those goals, which then helps me reach those goals. But in that, gotta be patient in the long term. But it gives you that urgency to having patience day to day with yourself, to be like, no, I can't put this off anymore. A podcast or anything doesn't just happen by like that. It always ends up taking longer than you think it will.
The Hair Game (55: 46)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Breanne (56: 14)
You kind of have to like seize the moment every day to get it going like
The Hair Game (56: 19)
100%.
Wise words from you, Brianne. This was great. I really, really enjoyed this. And look at that. Great last words for the community. When I asked you that question, you were like, hmm, what am I gonna say? And then you had all those pearls.
Breanne (56: 22)
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a student.
That's it.
Yeah, I don't know it's like but you really you're thinking as you say like is this It was my moment to say something I struggle with that saying whatever so
The Hair Game (56: 41)
It was. That's
right. Kind of reminds me of an Eminem song. That was your moment. You took it.
Breanne (56: 48)
Yeah,
exactly.
The Hair Game (56: 52)
All right, Brianna, so fun talking to you. Thank you.
Breanne (56: 54)
Thank you for having me. Thank you for asking me to do this. Like it's been so fun and it was such a good conversation. I feel so like my creativeness is flowing. I'm like, oh, do something. Yeah. Yeah.
The Hair Game (57: 03)
Ooh, you're invigorated? Are you invigorated? You're gonna
go and like start a new campaign now. I love it. The pleasure was mine.
Breanne (57: 09)
I just bite. Like, it's me. ⁓
thank you.
