Curating a Supportive and Recurring Clientele w/Lauren Herzog

The Hair Game (00: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 Hey Lauren, how's it going?

Lauren Herzog (00: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 Hey, I'm good. How are you?

The Hair Game (00: 00:00:10 03)

00:00:10 I'm pretty good. So for those listeners who don't know you, Lauren, you're a Pennsylvania hairdresser who focuses on color, particularly blonding and reds, but you're also very versatile as I think you've put out there on the interweb. And you can see on your social pages, you've had several BTC one-shot nominations and a beauty launch pad, 25 under 50,000 followers. I love that they do that by the way.

Lauren Herzog (00: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 Good.

The Hair Game (00: 00:00:10 32)

00:00:10 Beating Lashpad, right? It does. you know, because I mean, especially with social media these days, you can buy followers. We all know that, you know, you can add, you can add to that number pretty easily. I'm not really sure how that works, but it can be done. I know it can be done. mean, half of my DMs are, you know, those kind of spammy things saying

Lauren Herzog (00: 00:00:10 33)

00:00:10 I know it's so sweet. Gives everyone a chance, which is awesome.

00:00:10 Right.

The Hair Game (01: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 You know, want more followers or whatever? Yeah, actually, let's start there. Do you have any idea how that works?

Lauren Herzog (01: 00:00:10 03)

00:00:10 Yep. Yep. ⁓

00:00:10 No, I don't. honestly, I always jokingly say I'm like next to Amish. I don't really know. Like technology is not my forte. I can make a reel, but other than that, I'm not really that tech savvy.

The Hair Game (01: 00:00:10 15)

00:00:10 Hahaha

00:00:10 I still can't make a reel. think one time I accidentally made a reel. And then I'm like, this looks different. Yeah. I've gotten worse as time has gone by on social media. And I have no excuses. But we're not going to talk about that. And since you know nothing about how to spam your own Instagram account, we'll move on from there. So where are you from originally? And how did you get into this weird business we're in?

Lauren Herzog (01: 00:00:10 26)

00:00:10 Uh-huh. Hell yeah.

00:00:10 Sounds good.

00:00:10 ⁓ so I was born and raised in a super small town in Pennsylvania. ⁓ hence why my Instagram handle is the hillbilly hair painter. I was actually raised on 183 acre farm. my family still owns the farm, still operates it. it was a really nice place during COVID. We would go there and go fishing every day. know, we could go for walks, pet the cows. So, ⁓

The Hair Game (02: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 Wow.

00:00:10 Amazing.

Lauren Herzog (02: 00:00:10 18)

00:00:10 Super small, small town. Like I think in my graduating high school class, there was maybe, maybe a hundred of us. Um, but I did grow up kind of in the salon. My aunt had a salon in her house. Um, her and my one cousin did hair and my other cousin did nails in her home salon. And I spent a lot of time with my one cousin growing up and I kind of was raised into it. And I just loved.

00:00:10 Hearing the chatter and the laughing and seeing the cute little old ladies walk out of the salon with their sets every week. And I just always knew that that was like for me.

The Hair Game (02: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so did you start doing your friends early and that kind of stuff?

Lauren Herzog (03: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 ⁓ actually,

00:00:10 I did not. I didn't start doing my friends early. When I was in junior high school, one of my best friends who's still one of my best friends, her dad owned a salon in ⁓ the town that I grew up in called Kutztown. Super tiny. We do have a college though. ⁓ But he had a salon. Yeah, yeah. He had a salon and I expressed interest to him that I just want to come hang out and spend time there.

The Hair Game (03: 00:00:10 18)

00:00:10 Okay, cuts down college.

Lauren Herzog (03: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 So he had me like shampooing hair ⁓ well before beauty school, shampooing hair, mixing color for him, ⁓ answering phones, sweeping, picking up his lunch, whatever he needed done, I did it. And I just loved it. I loved being there. loved the whole culture. It's just always stuck out to me.

The Hair Game (03: 00:00:10 35)

00:00:10 Thanks

00:00:10 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So after

00:00:10 you got out of school, you were like, I guess I'll be a hairstylist.

Lauren Herzog (04: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 Yeah, I just, I've kind of always marched to the beat of my own drum. If everyone's going left, I'm going right kind of thing. And I had strong opinions from family members, what I should do. And I did not do that. I knew that I would never fit in a cubicle or a box. And I love talking to people. I love knowing their story and what makes them tick and do they believe in aliens? Like, what do you think? You know? So I just…

The Hair Game (04: 00:00:10 28)

00:00:10 I have to know.

Lauren Herzog (04: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 I just

00:00:10 love getting weird and going deep with people and that's, I could do that here.

The Hair Game (04: 00:00:10 34)

00:00:10 Yes, and the chair is a great place to do that as you stand behind it and ask your clients weird questions. So what did your family members want you to do? The typical lawyer doctor stuff?

Lauren Herzog (04: 00:00:10 37)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Not really that. So coming from generational farmers, I think they wanted me to like stay on the farm and

00:00:10 you know, they just, they'd wanted me to have a job that had benefits that had 401k. ⁓ you know, I just always heard the words, you need to have a real job. It was never considered a real job. And I think also because my aunt and my cousin did do hair.

The Hair Game (04: 00:00:10 59)

00:00:10 Stability.

00:00:10 You're right.

Lauren Herzog (05: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 Now they were like old time hairstylists that didn't continue education and what they did was great for their clients. Like it served their clientele perfectly. Um, and they were charging maybe $16 for a haircut. it was right. It was always like, Oh, you'll never make money. You'll never be taken seriously. Um, and I was just like, okay, you know, yeah.

The Hair Game (05: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 Right, forever, never raising prices.

00:00:10 Yeah. Was

00:00:10 this, and of course all of this is rather stereotypical and I know the listeners are hearing this and they're like, yeah, you know, I totally get it because I experienced something similar. Do you think, I mean, you're not that old, so we're not going back that far here, but we are talking about maybe a small town. I wonder if.

Lauren Herzog (05: 00:00:10 52)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (06: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 And do you think in small towns and rural areas that's still the case where being a hairstylist is largely still not a quote real job?

Lauren Herzog (06: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 100%. I mean, there's, you we had somebody come to our house last year to fix something on our siding and the one guy goes, is that, is that your only job? That's all you do? And I was like, yeah. Yep. That's it. It's all I do. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, it's

The Hair Game (06: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 That's all I did.

00:00:10 Okay, well, how to,

00:00:10 I'm sorry to interrupt. What, what town are you, where are you working now in Pennsylvania? Is it a small town or medium, large?

Lauren Herzog (06: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 say like medium. So Billy Joel wrote a song about it called Allentown. So I do work in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Yeah, yeah. It's about 20 minutes from the farm that I grew up on. So

The Hair Game (06: 00:00:10 49)

00:00:10 I know that okay yeah love that song

00:00:10 Okay, and about how far from Philly or Pittsburgh?

Lauren Herzog (07: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 We're about an hour north of Philadelphia. We are like five and a half hours east of Pittsburgh.

The Hair Game (07: 00:00:10 09)

00:00:10 Right. Got it. So how do you make this a real job in a kind of a smallish medium sized town? Cause you've clearly done that. So how did you do that? How did you go from a $16 perpetual $16 per haircut type hairstylist who's not considered a real job to something like you've become?

Lauren Herzog (07: 00:00:10 21)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 I would say honestly, I've just always believed in myself and I do believe that you say I am then you will be, you know, and I've just always believed in myself and I've always fought for what I felt I deserved and wanted and, ⁓ you know, kind of not having that support system, honestly, so many of the things that I have achieved were done out of spite, which

00:00:10 may not be the best reason, but it does light one hell of a fire under your ass. ⁓ And I just was so committed to like proving them wrong. I was committed to continuing my education ⁓ throughout my whole career. You know, if, I was stagnant in one place, I was like, all right, let's, let's go to where I can maybe learn something from someone else, you know? ⁓ Not that I've salon hopped a lot because I have not, but ⁓

The Hair Game (08: 00:00:10 07)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

Lauren Herzog (08: 00:00:10 31)

00:00:10 I just always chased more.

The Hair Game (08: 00:00:10 35)

00:00:10 Okay, so it's harder to chase more in a smaller town from what you're describing kind of the culture of a smaller town a little bit. we've had many interviews with people, mean, overseas and the UK, some of the UK barbers and hairdressers I've spoken to talk about this culture of

Lauren Herzog (08: 00:00:10 51)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (08: 00:00:10 59)

00:00:10 kind of modesty and humility. And if somebody is charging five quid more than everybody else, then everybody else is like, who do you think you are that you're charging, you know, 35 quid versus 30 quid, because the rest of us are charging 30 quid, you know, and, they kind of shame that person down into falling in line and being part of the common element, you know.

Lauren Herzog (09: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Yep.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (09: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 And I think that the same kind of culture pervades rural sort of US. And so how do you break free of that?

Lauren Herzog (09: 00:00:10 37)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 I really think that it's all in, it's all up to you. don't, I don't believe in anything being luck. And I think that those people that say those things, this is actually something I talk about often. ⁓ everybody wants what you have, but nobody wants to put in the work that you put in, you know what I mean? And they're so like, God forbid you're doing more than someone or better than someone.

The Hair Game (10: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 Of course.

Lauren Herzog (10: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 You know, and I've worked in salons where, ⁓ you know, some of the girls, like, I remember 10, 12 years ago when Guy Tang and Rebecca Taylor were on YouTube sitting and just watching them for hours and hours and hours. And then I would come into work and I was like teaching myself how to hand paint balayage because I was watching Guy

00:00:10 for six hours the night before and just pushing myself and working with these girls that were like,

00:00:10 where did she learn that? Like, you know, I just tried it and I just did it. And instead of sitting around and talking about shit, I'm going to do it, you know? And I kind of have just always focused on myself and what I'm doing and not listen to that stuff. I think that that's the most important thing. You know, if I would have listened to my family and I would have listened to my ex coworkers, like I wouldn't have chased my dreams. I wouldn't be chasing them now.

The Hair Game (11: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 I think it's really great. And I guess the moral of story is to not hold yourself back based on what you're kind of getting from those around you. Because those around you, typically human nature doesn't want them.

Lauren Herzog (11: 00:00:10 15)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (11: 00:00:10 24)

00:00:10 doesn't want you to succeed those people around you. Of course, we all have our fans. There's a few. You have your good friends who want you to succeed and stuff. But I find that ⁓ the closer you are with somebody, a true peer, let's say, doing the same thing, same industry or whatever, when you start poking your head up and finding success beyond them, they don't like it.

Lauren Herzog (11: 00:00:10 29)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 my mindset on that is what are you doing? Like, I want to learn more. instead of talking about it, you can be like, Hey, what are you doing? Like, can you teach me what you're doing? And we could have gone there together, but Hey, that's all on you. We all make our own choices, you know?

The Hair Game (12: 00:00:10 11)

00:00:10 Absolutely. Bottom line is it's there for everybody. All of the education in our industry is there for everybody. Gaiteng's YouTube channel was there for everybody, or Tracy's, or any of the early ones. And now there's hundreds. And of course, there's some bad education. But there's a lot of great education out there, and it's free. And there's a lot of even better education out there that costs money. So you know, this

Lauren Herzog (12: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Yes. ⁓

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Yep.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (12: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 Sometimes you just got to go out there and get it for yourself. All right. So you were doing this and I'm assuming you're still doing that. Are you still doing this? I find that the best people continue to learn.

Lauren Herzog (12: 00:00:10 42)

00:00:10 Exactly.

00:00:10 Mm hmm.

00:00:10 Yeah. Yep. I always say, I never think I'm good enough. And I think that is like the mentality of people who do wind up being successful because they're students of life. They're always trying to perfect their craft in every way, shape and form. You're curious. You're not comfortable. Comfortability is where you go to die. You know, I've been very uncomfortable many times in my life. And every time there's always

00:00:10 purpose in that pain or situation. You just have to keep going. Yeah, I love classes.

The Hair Game (13: 00:00:10 25)

00:00:10 Ideally

00:00:10 you get comfortable being uncomfortable because as you pointed out, the discomfort, that's where the real growth is.

Lauren Herzog (13: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm. Right.

The Hair Game (13: 00:00:10 35)

00:00:10 There was a guy that I knew has been very successful. He's a republic figure. And he likes to say, ⁓ he tries on a daily basis to live on the edge of the envelope. I'm not really sure that metaphor makes a whole lot of sense, like living on an envelope, but that's the way he thinks of it. And he thinks of the envelope as, you know, there's the inside of the envelope, which is kind of comfortable and warm, you know, it's, ⁓

Lauren Herzog (13: 00:00:10 50)

00:00:10 Right.

The Hair Game (14: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 protected from the winds, you know, or you can kind of get yourself out of the envelope and kind of stand on the on the edge of it. And and that's what he tries to do on a daily basis. And it works for him. So, ⁓ yeah, that that's that's where you've been and it's gotten you into good places. And that's where I want all of our listeners. That's where I want all of our salon republic beauty professionals, ⁓ you know, to get themselves. And that's where I want all of our listeners to get themselves, because that's where the real growth happens.

Lauren Herzog (14: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 Yeah.

The Hair Game (14: 00:00:10 33)

00:00:10 And that's where the satisfaction ultimately comes, right? Self-satisfaction. And it's not just being successful money. It's how we feel about ourselves, right? That's the most important currency of life, I think. ⁓ And regardless of what you do in your life, you want to be satisfied with what you're doing. And it requires kind of being comfortable.

Lauren Herzog (14: 00:00:10 36)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Yes.

The Hair Game (15: 00:00:10 01)

00:00:10 So how do you exploit your time these days?

Lauren Herzog (15: 00:00:10 03)

00:00:10 How do I spend my time these days?

The Hair Game (15: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Lauren Herzog (15: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 mean…

The Hair Game (15: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 How much behind the chair?

00:00:10 Are you traveling any?

Lauren Herzog (15: 00:00:10 09)

00:00:10 Um, so I work three days behind the chair, Tuesday, Wednesdays, Thursdays from nine 30 to three 30. I have two little boys at home. So I have curated. Yeah. Uh, I've curated my schedule so that I can work while they're in school and come home and make dinner, do homework, watch them fucking WWE each other, slam each other off the top rope, you know? Um, yeah.

The Hair Game (15: 00:00:10 19)

00:00:10 Nice.

00:00:10 Boys, and how old are they?

Lauren Herzog (15: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 and six.

The Hair Game (15: 00:00:10 39)

00:00:10 11 and

00:00:10 6, the 6 year old is going to be a tough sucker, he? Because the 11 year old just tosses him around.

Lauren Herzog (15: 00:00:10 44)

00:00:10 I

00:00:10 I don't know, he's pretty tough. He's a leader. He actually reminds me a lot of myself. It's like you tell him one thing and he's like, I'm doing the opposite. And so it's hard to like parent the you out of somebody else, but I'm like, I feel like that's also my best and worst trait. So I'm gonna let him, I'm gonna let it ride. So I do work three days behind the chair. I do work one Saturday a month to accommodate my teachers.

The Hair Game (15: 00:00:10 55)

00:00:10 Hahaha

00:00:10 Thanks.

00:00:10 Yeah, I love that.

Lauren Herzog (16: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 I'm sure any one of us in the industry that has teacher clientele, they can't take days off work. Like there's no subs. So I do come in one day a week to just kind of get them in there on a Saturday that they can come in. And ⁓ other than that, I kind of have a princess schedule and I do love it. ⁓ I worked for it though, you know, like I, I came from the days of you sat and you sat and sat, sat for walk-ins.

The Hair Game (16: 00:00:10 34)

00:00:10 Yeah, of course.

Lauren Herzog (16: 00:00:10 42)

00:00:10 and you came in early to accommodate a client, you stayed late to accommodate a client, you put yourself last always and working 10, 12 hour days, five, sometimes six days a week. So, you know, it feels good to be here, especially having children.

The Hair Game (17: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 I bet. And that's what you worked for. And it seems like you timed it pretty well. How long did it take you to get to the princess schedule?

Lauren Herzog (17: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 Thank you.

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 I would say that activated about three or four years ago. ⁓

The Hair Game (17: 00:00:10 13)

00:00:10 So after a hundred

00:00:10 years.

Lauren Herzog (17: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 after, so I've been doing this 20 years, so about 16 years in that I was working like that, like crazy. Yeah. And, um, it's just, I will preach to anyone who will listen about that. You know, I loved my first salon that I worked at. was me and a bunch of old ladies and they were the best and you know, I still keep in contact with them. She's still my mentor. She actually lives up the road from me.

The Hair Game (17: 00:00:10 19)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Lauren Herzog (17: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 ⁓ but I will say they ingrained some like toxic belief systems in my head because they came from such an old school time, you know, they made me think that I had to take anything and everything that walked in the door that I had to come in early. had to stay late. I had to accommodate the client no matter what the cost on my end was. ⁓ so that was hard for me to break through those belief systems, but, ⁓ I'm really happy that I just chose myself and

The Hair Game (17: 00:00:10 50)

00:00:10 Yeah.

Lauren Herzog (18: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 At the end of the day, need to also, I'm a human and I also have kids and missing things on Saturdays like Easter egg hunts, you don't get that back. So you have to just do it. And if you have a good clientele, they're going to just support you and love you through it, which is what happened to me. And I was so surprised by the amount of support that I did have through that. It's amazing.

The Hair Game (18: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 All right, so and it took you 15 plus years to get to that point of curating the clientele that's compatible with the type of way that you want to work that fits into your lifestyle at the moment, right? Because when you first started, you didn't have kids, so you had more flexibility, right? And then there will come a time, I don't want to make you cry, but your kids are going to leave the house and…

Lauren Herzog (18: 00:00:10 42)

00:00:10 to do it. Yeah.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 I know.

The Hair Game (19: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 and then you're gonna have ⁓ a more flexible schedule and maybe you might change your schedule then. But it all hinges on your ability to be flexible to accommodate your lifestyle, hinges on your ability to find the right clients, right? And it took you a while to do that. And now that you've done that, you've implemented some boundaries around your schedule, around your time and stuff like that.

Lauren Herzog (19: 00:00:10 24)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (19: 00:00:10 36)

00:00:10 to kind of protect your work-life balance. And is that still hard? Like, I'm sure some of your clients are like, ⁓ come on, please come in at 745 if I have an XYZ or come in on Saturday because I have a wedding or something like that.

Lauren Herzog (19: 00:00:10 40)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 It's not hard at all. No, I'm good. ⁓ I really, I really am good. I'm like, no, I'm sorry. You know, I've, I've really bounded up. did a total 360. Yeah. It is great on the other side of that. really is. And I mean, I did live in that like scarcity mindset too, for a very long time that, you know, I had to, I don't do men's haircuts anymore. I don't enjoy them.

The Hair Game (19: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 ⁓ I love it.

00:00:10 Yeah.

Lauren Herzog (20: 00:00:10 21)

00:00:10 I can do them just fine, but I don't want to. They make me itchy and I just, I don't know, give me a color brush and I'm happy as shit. I just, don't know, I've totally changed everything about how I work and my clients are so, like they want me to be home with my kids and they're amazing. Yeah, that's

The Hair Game (20: 00:00:10 23)

00:00:10 Yeah

00:00:10 Okay.

00:00:10 That they care about you. Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 so as you go through the process of finding your ideal clients.

00:00:10 I guess, you you get over time, you know, let's call it 15 years. Some clients come in and you you mesh with them. some come in and you don't mesh with them. And, and how do you, you've got to start building some boundaries a little bit early or else you're going to end up with 50 % clients who don't care about you and they want you to come in on a Saturday, even though you've got a kid.

Lauren Herzog (21: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 Thank you.

The Hair Game (21: 00:00:10 20)

00:00:10 And so how did you find yourself doing that?

Lauren Herzog (21: 00:00:10 24)

00:00:10 Consultations, honestly. Every single client, if I get a new client inquiry, I call them up, I tell them, thank you so much for your interest. I do require all new clients to come in for a caller consultation. The fee is X amount of dollars for X amount of minutes. During that time, we'll talk about, you know, realistic expectations and give you a pricing estimate and a timing. And I feel like that right there, they're just like,

00:00:10 ⁓ like you realize who's serious and who sees the value behind what you're doing and takes you seriously as a professional. And I think that that's such an important step that you have to book them for a consultation well before they come in for any color service.

The Hair Game (22: 00:00:10 11)

00:00:10 So this is kind of a hot topic in the industry last couple of years, right? Where we came out of COVID, a lot of people threw boundaries up and a lot of people maybe who had ⁓ not refined their clientele yet. And a lot of clients were like, I'm not jumping through these hoops, that Jane Doe is asking me to jump through.

Lauren Herzog (22: 00:00:10 18)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 and

The Hair Game (22: 00:00:10 39)

00:00:10 And there's been some viral posts on TikTok and Instagram with clients are like, all I want is a haircut. And, you know, I call the salon and they tell me to, you know, do this and that and do this other thing. I have to fill out a form. And it's like, you know, what does the industry come to? Right. And then you read through the comments and you've got both sides. You've got a lot of people saying, yeah, you know, the hair industry has.

Lauren Herzog (23: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (23: 00:00:10 09)

00:00:10 The customer service has absolutely gone away. And then you have some hairstylists in there where they're like, well, yeah, I mean, these are professionals. We are professionals who have refined our craft over many years. And it's a very important relationships, a long-term relationship between us and the client. And we want to make sure that we're going to be a good match. ⁓

00:00:10 This is, I don't know if this battle will ever be resolved because I think you've got some clients who expect certain things or let's say want a, want the service delivered in a certain way. ⁓ You use the term serious. think I totally understand how you use that term. There's some less serious and more serious clients. There are some clients who,

Lauren Herzog (23: 00:00:10 40)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (24: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 want a good relationship, they want a particular service, ⁓ they are willing to pay for it, and there's other clients who want less maybe.

00:00:10 I think this is going to be an ongoing battle. Do you find this in the industry right now? Do you see this kind ⁓ of disconnect between sometimes what a customer expects?

00:00:10 and once versus what the hairstylist is willing to give an offer.

Lauren Herzog (24: 00:00:10 39)

00:00:10 I do, I do see that a lot. And I just honestly think that everyone has to do what makes them happy. Like you do you, there is a stylist for every client and I am not for everyone just like everyone's not for me. And that's the beauty of the freedom of choice. You don't, if you don't like my policies and how I run things, that's okay. I'm happy to refer you to maybe here's someone else that does not have, you know, the same process as I have.

00:00:10 Also, I mean, I feel like it is about respect too. know, like I do take my job very seriously. I do want to clearly communicate with you on your wants and needs and give you a realistic expectation and, you know, give you a price estimate that's not gonna shock you the day of, you know, it's why I do this beforehand, but it's, that's your choice, you know? And I feel like if,

00:00:10 If that's not for you, it's not. And that's okay. That's okay.

The Hair Game (25: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 Yeah. And so I think this is kind of goes back to what we were talking about. There's a point in one's career where they need to take clients who, you know, and then over time you, you find those who are, who are most compatible with you. And I have, I have this conversation all the time with my friends who are not in the beauty industry, but they're clients. And, you know, there's a guy friend of mine and

Lauren Herzog (25: 00:00:10 53)

00:00:10 Right.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (26: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 He wants a really great haircut. He knows that he can get a better haircut than what he's been getting, but he has not gotten used to thinking in advance of booking an appointment. And so he'll text me and he thinks that because, you know, I know all these beauty professionals and have all these salon locations that I can get him in to the perfect hairstylist in the next 30 minutes.

Lauren Herzog (26: 00:00:10 24)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm. Right.

The Hair Game (26: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 And then I have to go through this excruciating explanation of, look, this is the way it works. The guy or the girl who can deliver the look that you want is a relationship that you need to build over time. mean, there's, there's going to be a learning curve for your hair.

Lauren Herzog (26: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Right.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (27: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 and by the way, the person with the skills to do it is booked out some

00:00:10 to some degree, you know, it be a week, it might be four days, it might be four weeks, whatever it is. So you have to think in it, but you have to be a little more thoughtful as a consumer. And this is what some consumers don't want. They don't want to have to be thoughtful. But if you really want to do it right, you know, as a consumer, as a client, you want to get the best result, you want to get the best look, you have to think in advance and you have to book an appointment with somebody who…

Lauren Herzog (27: 00:00:10 09)

00:00:10 Right.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (27: 00:00:10 35)

00:00:10 you know, is highly recommended or whatever. And it might be three weeks away and then you show up and then you communicate, you know, well with this person or what you want and all that. And it might take two or three visits.

00:00:10 your best chance of getting what you want. And then, of course, you you book out every four weeks or whatever for a guy or whatever he wants. That's how you do it. But so many

00:00:10 guys, for example, are still not, they still don't understand that that's how to get the better look. And in the world of color, it's even more, right? It's longer wait times and it's even more knowledge and familiarity with the

00:00:10 Maybe there's a lot of technical education out there for hairstylists. I need to do an education program for clients.

Lauren Herzog (28: 00:00:10 31)

00:00:10 Honestly, I mean, I think it always comes down to two like, nobody is entitled to anything though, you know what I mean? I like for me, I just want to be like, well, who are you to like, I don't know, I just I don't think like that. I don't think like that. And not everyone thinks the same. And that's great. That's the beauty of the world. But like, if you want what you want, when you want it, well,

The Hair Game (28: 00:00:10 33)

00:00:10 Ha ha.

00:00:10 Yes, of course.

Lauren Herzog (28: 00:00:10 58)

00:00:10 You should pre book your appointment so that you know you're going to get your spot at the time that you need with the person that you want that you know is going to slay your hair. Like, we're not here to convenience you. This is our career too.

The Hair Game (29: 00:00:10 00)

00:00:10 Right. Yeah.

00:00:10 Right. I guess the problem is when a client wants a level 10 like a service revolt, but they're willing to put a level one amount of effort into finding the right person and thinking in advance. That's really where the problem is. Obviously there are salons that accommodate the convenience maximizing client, right? Somebody who wants a haircut in 15 minutes, you know, the next 15 minutes.

Lauren Herzog (29: 00:00:10 24)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (29: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 there's salons or barbershops to accommodate that, but they're not going to get a level 10, I shouldn't say level 10, but let's say a 10 quality result. Yeah.

Lauren Herzog (29: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Right.

The Hair Game (29: 00:00:10 49)

00:00:10 So what do you see in behind the chair these days with your clients? Obviously you've got the fairy tale clientele and schedule and all that kind of stuff, but is there any sort of, you know,

00:00:10 behavioral changes or people spacing their appointments out or not or how's it working?

Lauren Herzog (30: 00:00:10 06)

00:00:10 I mean, honestly, I have not noticed that. Everybody's maintained pretty regular appointments. Everything is lived in and low maintenance, which we love. I I love a good tedious project. I'd rather work on you for five hours and see you twice a year than, I mean, not to say I don't love seeing them regularly, because I love that too. I love my babies, but everything is, you know, I feel… ⁓

00:00:10 pretty budget friendly in the sense they want to come in and invest the time, the money and one appointment. And that's kind of how I work anyway. I don't see, I haven't seen a slow down of anything, honestly.

The Hair Game (30: 00:00:10 49)

00:00:10 Amazing. So what would you tell yourself now that you're 20 years in? How old were you when you started?

Lauren Herzog (30: 00:00:10 50)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 I went to beauty school right after high school at 18 and yeah.

The Hair Game (30: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 Like, okay, 18. Okay,

00:00:10 so what would you tell your 18-year-old self?

Lauren Herzog (31: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 Keep learning, honestly. Keep learning and keep believing in yourself. I wouldn't have changed a thing about myself or my journey, you know? I feel like it's all your mindset.

The Hair Game (31: 00:00:10 15)

00:00:10 So with your clients, you've gotten to know a lot of them, I'm sure, after many, many years. What's the most difficult conversation you've ever had with a client in your chair?

Lauren Herzog (31: 00:00:10 25)

00:00:10 Hmm.

00:00:10 Okay, here's one. This was like right after COVID. And we were in the green, I had started reaching out to my clients, kind of giving them like a priority like my regulars I reached out to first, right? So there was a client of mine who was

00:00:10 became one of my best friends over time, honestly, and she became my son's godmother, actually. We were so close, and she was my first client back from COVID, her and her daughter, and I was so excited to get my hands on some hair. And her daughter, so she was Peruvian, and her husband was Indian, and her kids were this beautiful, like, ugh, they were gorgeous.

The Hair Game (31: 00:00:10 54)

00:00:10 Cool.

Lauren Herzog (32: 00:00:10 16)

00:00:10 And so that being said, they're darker featured and her daughter wanted this super light buttery blonde like balayage. And I'm like, yes, let's do it. Like it will look so good on you. She's so pretty. So mom was there for the consult and saw the pictures of everything. I guess I should backtrack and say she was always very controlling of her kid's hair. Okay. So fast forward, we do the service. I'm like thriving.

The Hair Game (32: 00:00:10 39)

00:00:10 Okay.

Lauren Herzog (32: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 We ordered some Turkish food for lunch. was like, you know, best day ever. Anyways, she wanted painting her daughter's hair. ⁓ She freaked out on me and like berated me and was like, it's too light. Like this looks horrible. The kid is looking at me with like doe eyes, like I love it. It's great. Like it's so pretty. And it was so pretty. And like she just railed into me.

The Hair Game (32: 00:00:10 48)

00:00:10 Nice.

00:00:10 Aww.

Lauren Herzog (33: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 I never could have expected that to happen, especially from her, because we were so close. It was wild. ⁓ And I had to tell her after that night, like I told her the next morning, I'm so sorry, but I'm canceling all your future appointments. I cannot do this again. That was a line that was crossed that was just not okay. So I think that was probably the most difficult conversation I've ever had.

00:00:10 And it was also the first time I fired a client and it was a client that was so close to me. You know, like if someone would have been like, you're going to fire this client one day. I'd be like, no, I'm not. You're crazy. Um, that was kind of when I started changing things with my schedule and stuff and bounding up. Cause I'm like, Whoa, nobody deserves that. know,

The Hair Game (34: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 How did she respond?

Lauren Herzog (34: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 ⁓ not good. It was not good. ⁓ She was like, she looks like shit. And I offered solutions that night too. I offered to tone her down darker. She… ⁓

The Hair Game (34: 00:00:10 18)

00:00:10 No, I mean to

00:00:10 you saying, I'm going to have to cancel your future. In other words, firing her as a client. How does she respond to that?

Lauren Herzog (34: 00:00:10 27)

00:00:10 ⁓ not good. It was very, it was still very aggressive. ⁓ she, she was just like, okay, well we don't trust you anyway. Chrissy's hair is ruined and like the kids hair was not ruined. Her hair was super healthy. Like she just didn't like it and, that's fine. You don't have to like it. It was just

The Hair Game (34: 00:00:10 32)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah.

Lauren Herzog (34: 00:00:10 49)

00:00:10 That was

00:00:10 the most uncomfortable I've ever been. Yeah.

The Hair Game (34: 00:00:10 52)

00:00:10 Right.

00:00:10 That's good that you did it. ⁓ It's unfortunate that that happened.

Lauren Herzog (34: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 Yeah. Yeah.

00:00:10 People are gonna do what people are gonna do. That's when I learned that lesson. You know, it doesn't matter how good you are to them or how close you are to them. They are gonna do what they're gonna do.

The Hair Game (35: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah,

00:00:10 sometimes they fall off the handle. Fly, I guess it's fly off the handle. Where did that come from? What does fly off the handle mean?

Lauren Herzog (35: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 Yeah, crazy. Yeah.

00:00:10 I think it just means you lose your shit.

The Hair Game (35: 00:00:10 23)

00:00:10 No, I

00:00:10 know, why is it fly like who flew off the first handle? Like somebody flies. How do you even fly off a handle? I'm never.

Lauren Herzog (35: 00:00:10 28)

00:00:10 I don't know.

00:00:10 I'm full of

00:00:10 like fun facts, but I don't actually know that one.

The Hair Game (35: 00:00:10 35)

00:00:10 Well, this is something that needs to be fleshed out immediately.

00:00:10 All right, here it is. Compliments of artificial intelligence. The phrase fly off the handle comes from the literal danger of an axe head becoming loose and flying off its wooden handle during use. In the 1800s, poorly secured axe heads would sometimes detach mid-swing, making them unpredictable and dangerous as axe heads are flying.

Lauren Herzog (36: 00:00:10 05)

00:00:10 Yeah.

The Hair Game (36: 00:00:10 06)

00:00:10 there you go. See, this is why we have so many listeners, because they learn things.

Lauren Herzog (36: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 I love it.

00:00:10 Yeah,

The Hair Game (36: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 If you could wave a wand and change anything about the industry at all right now, what would it be?

Lauren Herzog (36: 00:00:10 19)

00:00:10 Hmm clicks Clicky Clicky Mean Girl groups like I feel like I see so much of that. ⁓ I don't know. I'm Yeah, it's just like like I don't know I go I go out I go to hair shows I go to classes and I'm like, hey, I talked to anybody everybody and When you don't get that response back, it's just like ⁓ okay. All right. I don't know. I just

The Hair Game (36: 00:00:10 32)

00:00:10 I mean, obviously in salons, but yeah.

Lauren Herzog (36: 00:00:10 49)

00:00:10 I've noticed there's a lot of that, like you're not welcomed in as much.

00:00:10 That would probably be it. But I'm also thinking, do I want to change that?

The Hair Game (36: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 Yeah. ⁓

00:00:10 No, we definitely want more.

Lauren Herzog (37: 00:00:10 02)

00:00:10 because I'm like, like

00:00:10 that, that is an issue. But

The Hair Game (37: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 We want more clicks. Of course we want to change it. Why not? Yes, I mean to be welcoming is better than the alternative. And I think people do clicks because that's where they feel comfortable. They feel comfortable in these little social groups and it makes them feel superior or a higher status to omit others from their group. You know, stuff like this.

Lauren Herzog (37: 00:00:10 11)

00:00:10 Yeah? Yeah, I don't… Yeah. Yeah.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Mm-hmm.

The Hair Game (37: 00:00:10 35)

00:00:10 But yeah, think that's a great answer. Do you have any horror stories?

Lauren Herzog (37: 00:00:10 38)

00:00:10 not actually a hair horror story, but a salon horror story, if you want that. It's actually really fucking funny. ⁓ so like nineties R and B, we all know it, love it. We all know how raunchy it is. Right. So years ago I had, I still have two male clients hanging on that I do. I'll forever do their hair. They're my guys. But, ⁓ the one a couple of years ago,

The Hair Game (37: 00:00:10 42)

00:00:10 yeah, please. ⁓ yeah.

Lauren Herzog (38: 00:00:10 04)

00:00:10 Everyone else in the salon I worked at was done for the night and it was just him and I on the floor. My boss was in the back room on the phone with her boyfriend so she didn't hear like the song that came on. I don't know if you're familiar with the song Freak Me by Silk.

The Hair Game (38: 00:00:10 22)

00:00:10 ⁓ I mean, not by name. If I heard it, I probably would.

Lauren Herzog (38: 00:00:10 26)

00:00:10 was cutting Steve's hair and this song came on and I was just like, oh my God. And yeah, you hear this? Freak me, baby. Oh yeah.

00:00:10 This song? You never heard this?

The Hair Game (38: 00:00:10 43)

00:00:10 Up and down, hold on a second.

00:00:10 I think I have. mean, this is going back a little bit.

Lauren Herzog (38: 00:00:10 46)

00:00:10 It's horrible. Like when you're alone,

00:00:10 when you're alone with a male client and this comes on, you just want to fucking die. You know, I'm like, if I could have crawled underneath the floor I would have, it was horrible. So the song's playing and I'm like, Steve, how are your kids like screaming so loud trying to like talk over the song that was playing.

The Hair Game (38: 00:00:10 55)

00:00:10 I get that. yeah, for sure.

00:00:10 ⁓ yeah, yeah, look at.

00:00:10 Hahaha

Lauren Herzog (39: 00:00:10 14)

00:00:10 Meanwhile, I'm like leaning around the corner of my boss and I'm going, cut it, like stop, stop, stop. And she's like waving at me and I'm like, ⁓ And I couldn't get out of it. And that was probably the only time that I wanted to die ever in my life. ⁓ Because that was the only way I saw escaping that. It was so horrible. ⁓ Yeah, nothing, nothing I don't think will ever top that moment for me. Just.

The Hair Game (39: 00:00:10 31)

00:00:10 That's really funny.

00:00:10 Ha ha ha.

00:00:10 Yeah,

00:00:10 that's a good one. like that. I've never had that one before here on the Hair Game podcast. So trivia, freak me trivia, when was the album released? The year.

Lauren Herzog (39: 00:00:10 45)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah, I should make a reel about it.

00:00:10 I'm

00:00:10 gonna say… ⁓

00:00:10 Let's go in 92.

The Hair Game (40: 00:00:10 08)

00:00:10 Night, I'm sorry, 2004.

Lauren Herzog (40: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 Way off.

The Hair Game (40: 00:00:10 13)

00:00:10 Right? mean, that seems, it sure sounds like a 90s song.

Lauren Herzog (40: 00:00:10 18)

00:00:10 It does. I look so dumb right now.

The Hair Game (40: 00:00:10 22)

00:00:10 Well, no you don't, because nobody remembers when songs are released. Yeah, released on May of 2004. Alright, anyway, that was a good one.

Lauren Herzog (40: 00:00:10 30)

00:00:10 Damn, of course it's

00:00:10 a Taurus. It's a Taurus. Shut it down.

The Hair Game (40: 00:00:10 34)

00:00:10 It's always a Taurus.

00:00:10 Any last words for the community?

Lauren Herzog (40: 00:00:10 41)

00:00:10 I'm

00:00:10 Just stay coachable, know, stay coachable and stay curious. Yes, stay humble. Remember where the fuck you came from, know, and surround yourself with the right people. Like I opened my salon in January and my two business partners, we actually all three own the salon and we all chose each other. And I think that surrounding yourself with like-minded people is

The Hair Game (40: 00:00:10 46)

00:00:10 HUMBLE

Lauren Herzog (41: 00:00:10 12)

00:00:10 the best thing that you could ever do for yourself and don't listen to shit that anyone tells you you're capable of because only you know what you're capable of and you just got to keep fighting for what you want and you will get it. We all have the same 24 hours in a day. It's just what you choose to use them with.

The Hair Game (41: 00:00:10 31)

00:00:10 I love it. It's like just the same way you curate your clientele. You want to curate the people that you work around too. Almost more important, right? Because those are the people you're around every day. Yeah. All right. Super awesome. Thank you, Lauren. This was great talking.

Lauren Herzog (41: 00:00:10 33)

00:00:10 Yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah, so important. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:00:10 Yeah,

00:00:10 thank you. It's fun. I feel good about podcasts now. Yeah.

The Hair Game (41: 00:00:10 52)

00:00:10 Alright.

00:00:10 What did you say?

Lauren Herzog (41: 00:00:10 56)

00:00:10 I feel great about podcasts now, so thank you.

The Hair Game (41: 00:00:10 59)

00:00:10 Of course.